Re: Genuine fear for super league : Sun May 29, 2016 5:28 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

Everyone is talking about a lack in quality over here but, just because Leeds and Saints are struggling doesn't mean the game is going down the pan,.it just gives their fans something else to moan about.

If Cas were playing under the Leeds name, everyone would be raving about their fast open style of rugby and Hull seem to be doing what Wigan have done, by bullying other teams with a power game plus, having some quality to score plenty.

Although we may not have one of the "big four" dominating the comp, this season is THE most open competition in years, the very thing that SL has craved since it's inception.

It would be a brave man that predicted the 4 clubs that will make the play offs and although Leeds and Huddersfield appear to be battling it out for the wooden spoon, there is no certainty in this and nobody would have place that wager at the beginning of the season.

Just because "your" club is struggling, it doesn't make the whole comp low grade or poor quality.

There have been plenty of great games, plenty of upsets and uncertainty over who will win the big prize, which seems like a decent situation.

What we have is a low quality unpredictable and entertaining super league, the "big four" have just been replaced with another 4 clubs in Hull, Warrington, Wigan and the Catalans. As for Wigan remaining in the "big four" most Wigan fans will tell you that their team performances are poor this season and are just doing enough in some games to grind out wins.

Defences are atrocious this year this is showing up in the league table with so many teams on negative points difference contributed by an enormous amount of 50+ points games, injuries are playing a large part in reducing player quality this year as clubs have to dip into weakened squads of players. The salary cap restriction is not helping either not many clubs are risking a small squad of quality players and opting for larger squad depth.

Re: Genuine fear for super league : Sun May 29, 2016 6:22 pm  

Judder Man wrote:

What we have is a low quality unpredictable and entertaining super league, the "big four" have just been replaced with another 4 clubs in Hull, Warrington, Wigan and the Catalans. As for Wigan remaining in the "big four" most Wigan fans will tell you that their team performances are poor this season and are just doing enough in some games to grind out wins.

Defences are atrocious this year this is showing up in the league table with so many teams on negative points difference contributed by an enormous amount of 50+ points games, injuries are playing a large part in reducing player quality this year as clubs have to dip into weakened squads of players. The salary cap restriction is not helping either not many clubs are risking a small squad of quality players and opting for larger squad depth.

There will always be huge margins in the points differences of the clubs at the top of the league, compared to those at the bottom.
The real story of the season and perhaps the main reason for threads like this, is the performance of Leeds Rhinos.
If they had carried on, where they left off last season, we wouldn't have this thread but, they have flopped quite spectacularly.
Saints, under Cunningham are just not firing.
Their squad, on paper looks very good indeed but, Cunningham just hasn't been able to get them to preform as a team.
If you look at Cas and to a lesser extent, Wakefield, they have a coach, who has his team performing way ahead of expectations and Powell is getting close to the maximum possible from his squad.
Cunningham, Anderson, McDermott are getting nowhere near the max from their respective squad's and this has people saying the quality of SL is dropping, it simply isn't the case.
Instead, we have 3 or 4 of the top clubs who are being very patient (rightly so) with under achieving coaches.

With the current structure, although there is the potential of a Championship club gaining promotion, this is less likely to happen with Leeds and Huddersfield included in the Middle 8's but, it will certainly add some interest, when the games come around.

Re: Genuine fear for super league : Sun May 29, 2016 11:13 pm  

Warrington playing crap on the magic weekend may be a blessing in disguise.

Re: Genuine fear for super league : Mon May 30, 2016 10:36 am  

saintcj wrote: Things are not looking good and i dont see what can be done. how low will the standard get, and how many fans will simply lose interest before something is done? http://www.sthelensreporter.co.uk/sport ... -1-7934608 Nrl could be the way forward for sky sports and we just adopt an nrl team. Genuine my backside. it's funny how these threads are all currently eminating from Leeds and especially Saints fans - who's teams are suddenly not able to dominate in a way their high and mighty fans expect. You ask Cas, Hull, Wakey, Catalan and Wires fans if the game is being played at a lower standard than in the past and they will say no, it's better - odd isn't it. I've watched this game for thirty years and the standard has never been this good. Tries are being created through ball play and not physical prowess in the size department - knock on and other errors are very rare, hardly ever see a F/B or winger who can't handle the high ball (at most clubs anyway) etc etc. This year I've seen my own team play some great RL, but I've seen Cas, Hull, Widnes and Salford do the same. I though the best pure RL on offer at the magic weekend was Hudds who out Sainted Saints. It's what we wanted, a level playing field where results were unpredictable. However some "fans" can"t take the results of what they wished for and now claim standards have dropped to ease their pain. Well standards have not dropped just Saints and Leeds. Still when they recover next season I'm sure all will be forgiven and these two clubs will have single handedly restored quality to SL

saintcj wrote: Things are not looking good and i dont see what can be done. how low will the standard get, and how many fans will simply lose interest before something is done? http://www.sthelensreporter.co.uk/sport ... -1-7934608 Nrl could be the way forward for sky sports and we just adopt an nrl team. Genuine my backside. it's funny how these threads are all currently eminating from Leeds and especially Saints fans - who's teams are suddenly not able to dominate in a way their high and mighty fans expect. You ask Cas, Hull, Wakey, Catalan and Wires fans if the game is being played at a lower standard than in the past and they will say no, it's better - odd isn't it. I've watched this game for thirty years and the standard has never been this good. Tries are being created through ball play and not physical prowess in the size department - knock on and other errors are very rare, hardly ever see a F/B or winger who can't handle the high ball (at most clubs anyway) etc etc. This year I've seen my own team play some great RL, but I've seen Cas, Hull, Widnes and Salford do the same. I though the best pure RL on offer at the magic weekend was Hudds who out Sainted Saints. It's what we wanted, a level playing field where results were unpredictable. However some "fans" can"t take the results of what they wished for and now claim standards have dropped to ease their pain. Well standards have not dropped just Saints and Leeds. Still when they recover next season I'm sure all will be forgiven and these two clubs will have single handedly restored quality to SL

Re: Genuine fear for super league : Mon May 30, 2016 10:46 am  

Mild Rover wrote:

Why?

Dutch domestic football was much stronger in the early 70s (relative to the rest of Europe at the time). Now all the best Dutch players move abroad - the league carries on.

People watched part-time RL players for decades, without too much complaint about the overall quality.

And as others have mentioned, we're not turning down opportunities that would make a huge difference to the talent drain.

If, for example, the RFL could get 20% more tv revenue, it'd still be dwarfed by the Australian deal. If we, as fans, could be perceived as a more desirable advertising demographic (rather than potentially interested in mushy peas, Romanian cars and inexpensive cider), the difference in sponsorship revenue would still only make a marginal difference.

The Papuan and French leagues can't compete with SL and in turn SL can't compete with the NRL. In football, the A-league can't compete with the EPL.

If you set matching the NRL as your objective, then yes - you should have very real concerns that SL will fail. Or consider a more sensible measure of success.

Better for the sport as a whole that players go to the NRL than to Union.

When our bar is part-time RL or a bit part league like the eredivise the game is already lost. The game is managing it's own decline and has managed to convince a certain section of the fan base that this is not only unavoidable but acceptable

You are stating that the decline of Dutch football from the 70s to now is something we should aim for. We aren't even hoping to stand still anymore

Re: Genuine fear for super league : Mon May 30, 2016 10:47 am  

vastman wrote:

Genuine my backside. it's funny how these threads are all currently eminating from Leeds and especially Saints fans - who's teams are suddenly not able to dominate in a way their high and mighty fans expect.

You ask Cas, Hull, Wakey, Catalan and Wires fans if the game is being played at a lower standard than in the past and they will say no, it's better - odd isn't it.

I've watched this game for thirty years and the standard has never been this good. Tries are being created through ball play and not physical prowess in the size department - knock on and other errors are very rare, hardly ever see a F/B or winger who can't handle the high ball (at most clubs anyway) etc etc.

This year I've seen my own team play some great RL, but I've seen Cas, Hull, Widnes and Salford do the same. I though the best pure RL on offer at the magic weekend was Hudds who out Sainted Saints.

It's what we wanted, a level playing field where results were unpredictable. However some "fans" can"t take the results of what they wished for and now claim standards have dropped to ease their pain. Well standards have not dropped just Saints and Leeds.

Still when they recover next season I'm sure all will be forgiven and these two clubs will have single handedly restored quality to SL

Only vasty could have such a victim mentality that a comment on the standard of SL is an insult to Wakefield

Re: Genuine fear for super league : Mon May 30, 2016 11:18 am  

vastman wrote:

knock on and other errors are very rare

Wakefield are making more errors and conceding more penalties this season than 10 years ago.

Re: Genuine fear for super league : Mon May 30, 2016 1:38 pm  

number 6 wrote:

Doesn't matter if we raise our cap another half a million to a million, the Aussies tv deal will still allow nrl clubs to pick n choose who they want.

Agreed.
With our sport being so far behind NRL and Union, in terms of revenue, a small increase in the cap wont do very much at all.
Having said that, the RL PR machine is totally non existent and it's important that we at least put what we have into the public eye.
We are far too insular as a sport and although the tag line "rugby league, the greatest game......." is positive, the only people that see this are current RL fans.
Sky, despite being the sports main sponsor, do very little to help and as far as the national media is concerned, we don't exist.

Re: Genuine fear for super league : Mon May 30, 2016 2:00 pm  

Well I'm a Cas fan and have said for two years that the standard of SL has fallen. Don't get me wrong, I'm enjoying the brand of rugby we play; I expect to be entertained and I am, but take away my club allegiance and is blatantly obvious that the standard has dropped. Yes, we've got better and others have got worse, but you only have to look at how poor saints and Wigan (and let's be honest; they're awful) and the fact they are still competing in the league highlights how poor the overall standard has become.

[Mild Rover]

Re: Genuine fear for super league : Mon May 30, 2016 2:07 pm  

SmokeyTA wrote:

When our bar is part-time RL or a bit part league like the eredivise the game is already lost. The game is managing it's own decline and has managed to convince a certain section of the fan base that this is not only unavoidable but acceptable

You are stating that the decline of Dutch football from the 70s to now is something we should aim for. We aren't even hoping to stand still anymore

No, l'm saying we have to adapt to circumstances and be realistic. As we and other competitions have had to for many decades.

We can flap about, moaning on about how somebody, for some reason, probably incompetence, has failed to find millions of pounds in extra revenue, without giving more than the vaguest or most unrealistic indication as to where it might be found. Or we can accept the reality that the gap to the NRL is currently unbridgeable and develop a model that works for us as well as possible.

Which isn't to say that we shouldn't strive to be successful, just that our potential for revenue generation is significantly lower than the NRL's, for a whole host of reasons, most of which are not the RFL's fault.