Re: Sam Burgess Union debut : Wed Sep 02, 2015 4:02 pm  

BrisbaneRhino wrote:

My point Juan is that there is simply no upside whatsoever from Burgess playing RU, which was your original point.

The fact that RL needs to look to itself to stop players going to RU is valid, but a different point entirely.

I do think though that the more Lee Smiths/Chev Walkers that go to RU rather than Jason Robinsons, the less likely it is for individual RU clubs to risk big money on them. To me RU clubs are making the same mistake as many RL clubs did, signing star RL players without really looking at whether they are even likely to make good RU players. Sam Burgess will probably be a reasonable success in RU (getting to a WC as a centre after his club deciding he'll never make one is pretty good going), but will never have the sort of impact he had in RL. He's one of those players that screams RL.

Burgess was signed for one reason - to counteract SBW following his RLWC performance.

Re: Sam Burgess Union debut : Mon Sep 07, 2015 3:10 pm  

Watched the 'highlights' of Eng v Ireland, Burgess came on late and made one big hit leading to an Ireland dropped ball & subsequent England try, it was one of the 3 or 4 actual highlights of the game. He did however drop a pass in a planned (read blindingly obvious) move into heavy traffic.
There are a couple of the England backs I'd like to see in RL who had a good go tbh and I think Courtney Laws has always had something about him.

The biggest thing I noticed though and still a massive issue that England /Lancaster can't seem to address/fix and IMO the reason they won't make the semi finals is their forwards/halfbacks unwillingness to get the ball out wide where their danger men are. FFS it's basic rugby, time and time again you had a couple of fatties rolling up a yard or so, a few more pile in to 'secure' the ball & slowing the play down and giving the defence time to have a fag, half a mild and a slash in the bogs before finally setting their line. The alternate was some basic passing to the next man outside giving the centres/wingers a bit of space to have a crack which they'd already done early doors with success.
So called international level players at the pinnacle of their sport making such rudimentary mistakes it was cringeworthy, good job the BBC now has a x128 forward button on the iplayer

Re: Sam Burgess Union debut : Mon Sep 07, 2015 6:56 pm  

I watched it and thought just the same, they really butchered one easy one on the right wing in the second half.

The two England wingers were actually their best performers. Watson for one would make a decent RL player I reckon. Joseph, too, he actually has a bit of footwork, which seems distressingly rare in RU backs.

Re: Sam Burgess Union debut : Mon Sep 07, 2015 7:09 pm  

knockersbumpMKII wrote:

Watched the 'highlights' of Eng v Ireland, Burgess came on late and made one big hit leading to an Ireland dropped ball & subsequent England try, it was one of the 3 or 4 actual highlights of the game. He did however drop a pass in a planned (read blindingly obvious) move into heavy traffic.
There are a couple of the England backs I'd like to see in RL who had a good go tbh and I think Courtney Laws has always had something about him.

The biggest thing I noticed though and still a massive issue that England /Lancaster can't seem to address/fix and IMO the reason they won't make the semi finals is their forwards/halfbacks unwillingness to get the ball out wide where their danger men are. FFS it's basic rugby, time and time again you had a couple of fatties rolling up a yard or so, a few more pile in to 'secure' the ball & slowing the play down and giving the defence time to have a fag, half a mild and a slash in the bogs before finally setting their line. The alternate was some basic passing to the next man outside giving the centres/wingers a bit of space to have a crack which they'd already done early doors with success.
So called international level players at the pinnacle of their sport making such rudimentary mistakes it was cringeworthy, good job the BBC now has a x128 forward button on the iplayer

I'm guessing you find every sport cringeworthy as international level players of all sports make rudimentary mistakes. The players you are talking about were sublime during the 6 Nations though.

Re: Sam Burgess Union debut : Mon Sep 07, 2015 10:58 pm  

Dally wrote:

Burgess was signed for one reason - to counteract SBW following his RLWC performance.

WTF???If you're going to comment then at least have a modicum of knowledge.....

SBW featured for 17 minutes (including 10 in the sin bin) COMBINED during the QF/SF and Final of RUWC 2011. He is again, 3rd or 4th choice cover for the All Blacks midfield and I suspect the same stands for Burgess and England...neither will feature in big games until the last 10 or if there's an injury!

Re: Sam Burgess Union debut : Mon Sep 07, 2015 11:45 pm  

I can't think of a single sporting team which has literally been dour, defensive and functional throughout the forty-odd years I've watched the telly. A single team - apart from England RU.

It's like every England team which has taken the field has sworn some kind of blood-oath not to play entertaining rugby. They were godawful to watch in the seventies. They were godawful to watch in the eighties. The nineties.

Their only win of any real significance (the RWC) seemed like an accident where someone hadn't told Jason Robinson that he couldn't sidestep or beat his opposite number.

Whilst we've locked ourselves into one pattern of play (overwhelm the opposition through size and strength in the forwards, box kick for territory, mop up the penalties, hurl one after the other prop-sized inside centre at the defence until it cracks etc.) NZ, Australia, South Africa and even Wales! have produced several genuinely entertaining sides who even in defeat can thrill the crowd with exciting play.

It's embarrassing. And selecting Burgess as yet another battering-ram centre (despite the fact that he was never a rapid forward in RL!) is symptomatic of an England setup which simply cannot help itself.

Re: Sam Burgess Union debut : Tue Sep 08, 2015 1:46 am  

Sam Burgess will be back at South Sydney by 2017 at the latest, and then off to the NFL faster than you can say "Jarryd Hayne."

Re: Sam Burgess Union debut : Tue Sep 08, 2015 8:18 am  

Mugwump wrote:

I can't think of a single sporting team which has literally been dour, defensive and functional throughout the forty-odd years I've watched the telly. A single team - apart from England RU.

It's like every England team which has taken the field has sworn some kind of blood-oath not to play entertaining rugby. They were godawful to watch in the seventies. They were godawful to watch in the eighties. The nineties.

Their only win of any real significance (the RWC) seemed like an accident where someone hadn't told Jason Robinson that he couldn't sidestep or beat his opposite number.

Whilst we've locked ourselves into one pattern of play (overwhelm the opposition through size and strength in the forwards, box kick for territory, mop up the penalties, hurl one after the other prop-sized inside centre at the defence until it cracks etc.) NZ, Australia, South Africa and even Wales! have produced several genuinely entertaining sides who even in defeat can thrill the crowd with exciting play.

It's embarrassing. And selecting Burgess as yet another battering-ram centre (despite the fact that he was never a rapid forward in RL!) is symptomatic of an England setup which simply cannot help itself.

I notice you didn't include the last 4 years and with good reason, under Lancaster England have progressively played better rugby and were the best team in the 6 Nations. They came to the Millennium Stadium in a hostile atmosphere and played attractive expansive rugby (I was there to witness it). I've also seen England play good rugby at times in the last 30 years and Wales play rubbish quite often (including Saturday) so using the odd experimental friendly to make such a sweeping generalisation doesn't hold up.

Re: Sam Burgess Union debut : Tue Sep 08, 2015 1:32 pm  

Why you all talking RU?

Re: Sam Burgess Union debut : Tue Sep 08, 2015 4:12 pm  

Sam who?