[Wigan6/Leeds1 Andy]

Re: England vs Australia: do or almost die. : Tue Oct 28, 2014 10:21 pm  

loiner81 wrote:

Nice stats, how many of those were play off or CC games?

You forgot to quote....

Feel free to carry on pretending those games never happened, i'm off to watch Gotham & The Blacklist.
I'll be back Sunday to either apologise or take the mick big time!

Either way I hope we're celebrating a historic win.

They're nice stats because they prove the complete opposite to what you said.

As I've already said, but you seem to have forgot:

Leeds only won 1 of out 4 sudden death/Knockout games (2 CC 2 Play-off games) when Tomkins play fullback.

25%.

I don't know why you need to wait until Sunday - it's not going to change Leeds record against Wigan when Tomkins played fullback.

Re: England vs Australia: do or almost die. : Tue Oct 28, 2014 10:49 pm  

Wigan28/Leeds18 Andy wrote:

Indeed. That double GF winning coach Michael Maguire clealry didn't have a clue moving Tomkins to fullback.

The top teams generally nullified him at FB, similar to how the NRL teams generally nullified him.

Running through London and Wakefield with 'the move' creating an overlap wasn't exactly a masterstroke.
With Brett Finch and Deacon in the side it was just logical to move him to FB.
He tore Wire apart when he played at 6 earlier in his career and had only one moment at fb.

[Wigan6/Leeds1 Andy]

Re: England vs Australia: do or almost die. : Tue Oct 28, 2014 10:57 pm  

Wire Yed wrote:

The top teams generally nullified him at FB, similar to how the NRL teams generally nullified him.

Running through London and Wakefield with 'the move' creating an overlap wasn't exactly a masterstroke.
With Brett Finch and Deacon in the side it was just logical to move him to FB.
He tore Wire apart when he played at 6 earlier in his career and had only one moment at fb.

In the 3 and a bit years he played fullback for Wigan they won 2 Grand Finals, 2 Challenge Cups and 2 hubcaps. London and Wakey must have been pretty good to get to all those finals.

Obviously Maguire didn't know what he was doing. No wonder we got rid.

Re: England vs Australia: do or almost die. : Tue Oct 28, 2014 11:15 pm  

Yeah...did it all himself, from fullback are we talking rugby or just comparing length?

Like I said 2 half back spots with 3 halfbacks, now I'm no Rachel Riley but I see the problem.

[Wigan6/Leeds1 Andy]

Re: England vs Australia: do or almost die. : Tue Oct 28, 2014 11:28 pm  

Wire Yed wrote:

Yeah...did it all himself, from fullback are we talking rugby or just comparing length?

Like I said 2 half back spots with 3 halfbacks, now I'm no Rachel Riley but I see the problem.

If Michael Maguire was more than happy to move him to fullback more than halfway through a season when he'd played in the halves I reckon he was on to something. Especially when he decided to keep him there the following year and then Wane did the same.

I'm no Rachel Riley either but I reckon if Maguire thought Tomkins offered more in the halves than at fullback, somebody else would have made way. I doubt Maguire makes coaching decisions based on numbers, he's obviously no Rachel Riley either.

Re: England vs Australia: do or almost die. : Wed Oct 29, 2014 12:00 am  

This discussion has turned into a proxy slugfest between Leeds and Wigan, via a few of their fans.

Steven McNamara has said that it was hard to pick a team early in the week when some players could not train (he was referring to Sean O'Loughlin). He went on to imply that if O'Loughlin can prove his fitness by game day, then he will play.

Re: England vs Australia: do or almost die. : Wed Oct 29, 2014 2:13 am  

One of the problem in not having a warm-up game is that it gets harder and harder to rotate the team as those not in the 17 are less and less match fit. Mind you, if England beat Australia, McNamara would be able to pick all the squad players for the 'meaningless' game vs NZ....

Re: England vs Australia: do or almost die. : Wed Oct 29, 2014 8:22 am  

BrisbaneRhino wrote:

One of the problem in not having a warm-up game is that it gets harder and harder to rotate the team as those not in the 17 are less and less match fit. Mind you, if England beat Australia, McNamara would be able to pick all the squad players for the 'meaningless' game vs NZ....

That's why if Lockers is anything like fit I'd get him out there. If we lose we're pretty much out anyway I'd have thought and if we win he'll have two weeks to get right for the final.

He's worth a gamble.

Re: England vs Australia: do or almost die. : Wed Oct 29, 2014 8:43 am  

So in short we have......
A captain who is semi fit & relies on pain killing injections
Our best attacking threat being placed outside a centre who can't pass
2 specialist hookers because neither can play 80 mins (despite one of them being named best player in SL)
A back row that even the Welsh would fancy their chances against

Then there's the fullback debate.......and the Ozzies are trying to tell us they're understrength!

Can't wait for Saturday, no really.

[PopTart]

Re: England vs Australia: do or almost die. : Wed Oct 29, 2014 12:40 pm  

So I've only just seen the stats from the game

Our completion rate was 80%, which clearly has to improve against the Aussies.

James Graham was outstanding with 35 tackles (most) , with 2 missed; 17 carries (Most) 135 metres (most) no errors or penalties conceded and 6 passes.

By comparison, only Corey Parker topped 100 metres with Bird at 87 and the rest progressively lower.
The forwards missed 25 tackles between them, whereas England forwards missed 19....still high

The Aussies will clearly improve in their discipline so I would expect them to reduce missed tackles and errors (10) and penalties conceded

I would suggest we need to improve our completion rate and look to our strngth in the front row.

Samoa had us under the cosh in the first half and it shows with them making yards out wide, and Watkins (29) and Shenton (23) having to do a lot of work.

New Zealand pack missed 10 tackles, 3 forwards missing none. That is the standard we need to get to, to beat the Aussies.

I'm surprised at our back row
Farrell: Tackles 30; Missed 1; Carries 8 for 48 metres
Tomkins: Tackles 23; Missed 2; carries 7 for 53 metres
Westerman: Tackles 29; Missed 2; carries 6 for 54 metres
Ferres: Tackles 19; Missed 1; Carries 7 for 48 metres

Both Westerman and Farrell did better than I thought in defence but none were that good in attack.
SR attack needs to improve.

Stats don't mean everything of course, but it shows areas we need to work on.