WWW.RLFANS.COM • View topic - Why has RL never taken off in Manchester and Liverpool?

Board index RLFANS MAIN The Virtual Terrace Why has RL never taken off in Manchester and Liverpool?

 

Post Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:44 pm
j.c Silver RLFANS Member
Silver RLFANS Member

Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2009 1:59 pm
Posts: 6745
Has there ever been stadiums in Manchester and liverpool that are the right size for rugbyleague clubs to play in and grow
22/03/2013
Get LEIGH outta wigan
Post Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:48 pm
shinymcshine Free-scoring winger
Free-scoring winger

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 1:45 pm
Posts: 1229
The comparison is that whilst Manchester and Liverpool have 2 major football clubs each, smaller towns and cities can sustain both RL and football, so why can't these major cities with a greater overall population?
Post Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:13 pm
Dally User avatar
Gold RLFANS Member
Gold RLFANS Member

Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2001 12:04 pm
Posts: 14359
shinymcshine wrote:
But historically, when RL was played at 3pm on a Sunday, in a time when shops were closed on a Sunday, then why didn't RL take off in Manchester & Liverpool ?

Historically RL was played on Saturday afternoons. It changed to Sunday's to try to save the game from competition with football.
Post Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:27 pm
Gallanteer User avatar
Cheeky half-back
Cheeky half-back

Joined: Wed May 02, 2012 11:51 am
Posts: 664
Manchester does have an RL side - it's called the Red Devils (in a small suburb called Salford).

OK, without being stupid, Salford Red Devils are essentially in greater Manchester with no competitor to fight against in terms of support, have a huge catchment area but us in the Championship get bigger crowds. If you renamed them Manchester, might that help? I doubt it. The problem is both these cities have 2 huge round ball clubs, the other cities don't.
And the Geek shall inherit the Earth!
Post Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:31 pm
Mild mannered Janitor User avatar
Silver RLFANS Member
Silver RLFANS Member

Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2004 10:48 pm
Posts: 6857
Location: Here there and everywhere
Salford red all over wrote:
That's stretching it a bit you could add a city like Southampton on to Leeds's population if you want to stretch it to a million.


http://ukpopulation2016.com/population-of-leeds-in-2016.html

757K

and then there is the immediate surrounding area.
Nil......Zip.....Nothing....ZERO....0
Post Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:52 pm
the artist User avatar
Silver RLFANS Member
Silver RLFANS Member

Joined: Thu Jan 16, 2003 5:40 pm
Posts: 5926
Location: At the cider bus, Worthy Farm, Somerset
Mild mannered Janitor wrote:
http://ukpopulation2016.com/population-of-leeds-in-2016.html

757K

and then there is the immediate surrounding area.


city boundaries are confusing sometimes. the boundary of leeds (the city of leeds) is based on the metropolitan borough which includes the towns of otley, morley, rothwell, and wetherby among others. so the 750k already includes the outlying areas. if you go any further out from the metropolitan boundary you are into bradford in the west for example.
The referee's indecision is final
Post Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:35 pm
wiganermike Cheeky half-back
Cheeky half-back

Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:03 pm
Posts: 927
A general lack of success (they tended to be near the foot of the league) for the clubs within those cities and other nearby towns and the existence of more illustrious neighbours probably combined to kill off most. Go back to the period following 1895 and we had clubs during the next fifteen years in towns like Stockport, Runcorn, two in Salford, around half a dozen at one stage in Leeds and its vicinity, one in Birkenhead as well as places like Morecambe and Lancaster plus the original Liverpool City. There were also more clubs in towns within what we know as the heartlands in places like Tyldesley and Brighouse. Include junior clubs (what we would call community clubs now) and there were teams in places like Radcliffe and Walkden. With a need to attract and keep paying audiences to fund costs of paying players in order to keep going such support would gravitate to those with success. Hence successful Leeds and Hunslet outcompeted the other Leeds clubs (though Bramley somehow soldiered on), Wigan and Leigh saw off Tyldesley and so on.

The clubs close to Manchester had Salford and Broughton Rangers (the other club in Salford) to contend with on their doorstep and these were two of the more successful clubs in the early 1900s. There were also Oldham and Swinton to contend with, with both being strong too. In soccer which was a growing threat as a counter-attraction there was Bury who twice won the FA Cup as well as growing clubs like Newton Heath. The clubs that persisted tended to be those which had fairly regular success to sustain interest. Later attempts in Manchester such as Belle Vue Rangers (the relocated Broughton Rangers who had been outcompeted in Salford) and much later Trafford Borough had to try to make a dent ,with uncompetitive teams, to compete with the two soccer giants. By that stage even a successful RL club (trophy-wise) would probably have failed to make much impact against those two. Soccer due to its successful clubs was and is now too engrained in the cultural psyche for other sports to garner much interest.

Those close to Liverpool had Everton who were already famous and successful to compete with as well as Liverpool. Given that the soccer teams won things and the RL teams were cellar dwellers they never really had a chance to catch the populace's interest. By the time Liverpool Stanley had their brief success in the mid thirties the soccer clubs had had a fifty year head start. I think this also coincided with Dixie Dean's era which would have made them even more invisible in that city.
Post Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:45 am
ThePrinter Silver RLFANS Member
Silver RLFANS Member

Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 10:19 pm
Posts: 9618
Location: Behind the picket fence on the grassy knoll in Dealey Plaza, Dallas, Texas.
WRT to Leeds also worth pointing out the dynamic when it comes to supporting the RL team and the football side in that city. Quite a lot of people from the likes of Castleford and Wakefield do support Leeds United because they don't have any major football club, but they obviously don't support Leeds Rhinos in favour of the Tigers & Trinity instead.

Know a few people who'll chant "we all hate Leeds scum" at Friday 8pm yet chant "we all love Leeds" at Saturday 3pm.
"The Golden Generation finally has its Golden Fleece! They have Wembley Cup Final winners medals to add to their collection."

23/08/2014
Post Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:45 am
UllFC User avatar
Gold RLFANS Member
Gold RLFANS Member

Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2004 1:41 pm
Posts: 14805
Its one of the great quirks and frustrations of Rugby League, its been clear since the 90s that the only Cities in the North growing and getting investment are Liverpool, Manchester, Leeds and Newcastle, yet we are only strong in one of those and have instead continued to be based in small towns and cities like Bradford and Hull that have seen massive industrial decline.

To be fair Maurice Lynsey had the right idea when SL started, but mergers were too controversial. Had he instead proposed new 'city' teams to be created (with exisiting ones relegated) we might be in a stronger place by now, as i'm sure the fans of the small town clubs would have still attended. Some of the big football teams may have gone in for sharing a small stadium for their reserve teams too, there was a lot of public money about in the 90s/early 00s.

I still dont think its a lost cause though, starting a team in league1 where investment risks are lower is a good format to use, Manchester Rangers are ground sharing with Man City academy which seems a good move. Stadiums are an issue, but we have to explore ground shares with football reserve teams and RU.

I think we should focus our international games in Liverpool, Manchester and Newcastle, they have big impressive stadiums and fit the brief of being close enough for heartland fans to get to and make the game profitable but also attract new fans. I was in favour of a game in London but the Olympic stadium hasnt worked, and I thought Coventry looked atmosphere less and the crowd very average for the double header last year.
Post Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:05 am
bramleyrhino User avatar
Gold RLFANS Member
Gold RLFANS Member

Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2002 4:39 pm
Posts: 11916
Location: Leeds 13
the artist wrote:
city boundaries are confusing sometimes. the boundary of leeds (the city of leeds) is based on the metropolitan borough which includes the towns of otley, morley, rothwell, and wetherby among others. so the 750k already includes the outlying areas. if you go any further out from the metropolitan boundary you are into bradford in the west for example.


In fairness, I was rounding up from the wider boundary figure.

I'd also suggest that a club like Leeds does (or should) see some of the outlying areas as very much part of their target market. Thousands of Harrogate residents commute into Leeds every day - that's a market Leeds should be tapping into.
I wish everyone would read bramleyrhino's post two or three times just to get it through some thick skulls


Mr bramleyrhino speaks a lot of sense.


Jamie Jones-Buchanan wrote:
"I'd never forgive myself if a child of mine was born in Lancashire.
PreviousNext

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Cronus, Dave K., Exiled down south, Gazemous, hooligan27, Kiyan, Mash Butty, NEwildcat, Ship's Cat, SmokeyTA, stouffer, The Avenger, TrinityIHC, Wildthing, WireWireWire, Xykojen, yorkieboy52 and 121 guests

Quick Reply

Subject: Message:
   

Return to The Virtual Terrace

cron

POSTSONLINEMEMBERSRECORD (DATE)
4,541,9281,83775,8764,491 (28-03-2016)
Google Analytics Unique Monthly Users : 118,226 (May 2016)
DOWNLOAD OUR NEW ANDROID APP CLICK HERE!
YOUR CLUB : Wakefield Trinity Wildcats
R
L
F
A
N
A
L
Y
T
I
C
S


Wakefield Trinity Wildcats
Change these prefs/or turn this off...

FIXTURES/RESULTS

W/D/L DATE COMP HOME AWAY
Sun 23rd Jul SL WAK STS
Thu 6th Jul SL WAK CAS
Sat 1st Jul SL WAK WAR
Sun 11th Jun SL WAK LEE
Fri 26th May SL WAK HUD
Sun 30th Apr SL WAK CAS
Mon 17th Apr SL WAK WIG
Fri 7th Apr SL WAK WID
W Thu 23rd Mar SL WAK 28 24 LEI
W Sun 12th Mar SL WAK 24 22 SAL
L Sun 12th Feb SL WAK 8 12 HFC
L Fri 23rd Sep SL STS 32 12 WAK
L Fri 2nd Sep SL CAS 46 22 WAK
L Sun 21st Aug SL WID 40 8 WAK
L Fri 5th Aug SL WIG 60 12 WAK
W Sat 16th Jul SL CAT 28 30 WAK
L Fri 8th Jul SL WIG 22 18 WAK
W Sun 12th Jun SL HUD 2 10 WAK
L Fri 27th May SL SAL 38 8 WAK
W Fri 29th Apr SL WID 16 18 WAK
W Mon 28th Mar SL LEE 16 20 WAK
L Fri 18th Mar SL HFC 22 4 WAK
L Fri 11th Mar SL STS 44 4 WAK
L Fri 26th Feb SL WAR 34 16 WAK
W Sun 21st Feb SL HKR 12 14 WAK
L Sun 14th Feb SL CAS 40 6 WAK
Tab two Tab three

Copyrite RLFanalytics 2016
LOGIN HERE
or REGISTER for more features!.
  Fri 24th Mar : 07:00
NRL-R4
PENRITH
40-0
NEWCASTLE
  
...Full time LIVE ON PREMIER SPORTS
  Fri 24th Mar : 09:05
NRL-R4
BRISBANE
v
CANBERRA
  
  Fri 24th Mar : 20:00
SL-R6
HUDDERSFIELD
v
LEEDS
  
  Fri 24th Mar : 20:00
SL-R6
WIGAN
v
HULL FC
  
  Fri 24th Mar : 20:00
SL-R6
WIDNES
v
SALFORD
  
  Fri 24th Mar : 20:00
SL-R6
ST. HELENS
v
WARRINGTON
  
  Sat 25th Mar : 05:30
NRL-R4
MANLY
v
CANTERBURY  
  Sat 25th Mar : 08:00
NRL-R4
PARRAMATTA
v
CRONULLA  
  Sat 25th Mar : 10:00
NRL-R4
GOLD COAST
v
NQL COWBOYS  
  Sat 25th Mar : 15:00
CH1-R3
LONDON
v
COVENTY  
  Sat 25th Mar : 18:30
CH1-R3
BARROW
v
HEMEL  
  Sun 26th Mar : 06:00
NRL-R4
WESTS
v
MELBOURNE  
  Sun 26th Mar : 08:30
NRL-R4
ST GEORGE
v
NZ WARRIORS  
  Sun 26th Mar : 15:00
CH1-R3
DONCASTER
v
OXFORD  
  Sun 26th Mar : 15:00
CH1-R3
HUNSLET
v
WHITEHAVEN