[Bulliac]

Re: O/T - General Election : Sun Apr 23, 2017 1:00 pm  

At work I did as my line manager asked, who ever they were. As one of them once told a colleague, "At the end of the day we're both here to do as I want". The best managers though, are open to debate and suggestions, but obviously hold the final decision. There has been the odd demagogue who feels he is always right and, on those thankfully rare occasions, I've just kept my head down and got on with it. I have worked for the vast majority of my life and always got paid, so that system works well enough.

Did all the other countries Hitler attacked have 'weak' leaders?

Re: O/T - General Election : Sun Apr 23, 2017 2:10 pm  

I had a boss who told me people are there to do what she told them to do. I believe we are there to work together.
I saw her as a very week leader as that was the only way she could get people to do things - threaten them - at least in her mind.
I have had great bosses who led by example, explained clearly how to do it then left you to get on with it. They were confident that they could leave us with it. To me, they were strong leaders who got things done without trying to boss people about.

Possibly your and my definition about the word "strong" is different. I don't see dictators or bully type bosses as strong people. I think they are weak who need to use power to gain things because they can't do it properly. Strong has different meanings. A strong mother bringing up kids by herself after a death is totally different in that context.

I think we both agree though that a good boss works with you and encourages and trains you so you do things for them without even being asked. Good strong bosses are like good referees. You hardly know they are there at times.
Interesting topic to discuss how different people see things.

[Bulliac]

Re: O/T - General Election : Sun Apr 23, 2017 4:01 pm  

woolly07 wrote:

I had a boss who told me people are there to do what she told them to do. I believe we are there to work together.
I saw her as a very week leader as that was the only way she could get people to do things - threaten them - at least in her mind.
I have had great bosses who led by example, explained clearly how to do it then left you to get on with it. They were confident that they could leave us with it. To me, they were strong leaders who got things done without trying to boss people about.

Possibly your and my definition about the word "strong" is different. I don't see dictators or bully type bosses as strong people. I think they are weak who need to use power to gain things because they can't do it properly. Strong has different meanings. A strong mother bringing up kids by herself after a death is totally different in that context.

I think we both agree though that a good boss works with you and encourages and trains you so you do things for them without even being asked. Good strong bosses are like good referees. You hardly know they are there at times.
Interesting topic to discuss how different people see things.

Don't know if that was directed at me or not. The definition of 'strong' was made by a previous poster to be fair, not by me - I just went along with it for the purposes of a response. You're probably correct, those who brook no arguments are probably not really strong - it just depends on context, or how you personally view things, I suppose.

I agree with you that leaders who get along with staff and treat them like adults generally get the best response. Some might say that is weak and isn't 'leading', but it is creating a workmanlike atmosphere and getting the job done, which is actually the important bit. Incidentally, the guy in my earlier post who made the remark about doing it his way, was talking to a bloke who needed reminding who was in charge.

As I've been in the position of manager myself, I've often said that, much as most would say you should, you can't actually treat everyone exactly the same, since people, as individuals, respond differently to the same treatment. When blame is being apportioned some react better to being told they've let you down, some need encouragement, and yes, some need a kick up the booty, and a reminder.

Re: O/T - General Election : Sun Apr 23, 2017 4:46 pm  

Bulliac wrote:

Don't know if that was directed at me or not. The definition of 'strong' was made by a previous poster to be fair, not by me - I just went along with it for the purposes of a response. You're probably correct, those who brook no arguments are probably not really strong - it just depends on context, or how you personally view things, I suppose.

I agree with you that leaders who get along with staff and treat them like adults generally get the best response. Some might say that is weak and isn't 'leading', but it is creating a workmanlike atmosphere and getting the job done, which is actually the important bit. Incidentally, the guy in my earlier post who made the remark about doing it his way, was talking to a bloke who needed reminding who was in charge.

As I've been in the position of manager myself, I've often said that, much as most would say you should, you can't actually treat everyone exactly the same, since people, as individuals, respond differently to the same treatment. When blame is being apportioned some react better to being told they've let you down, some need encouragement, and yes, some need a kick up the booty, and a reminder.

Bulliac, I was just picking up on the "strong" word and it reminded me of many conversations down the years about what makes a good leader / boss.
It is a good point you make about how different people need a different approach. I used to think it all came down to experience but I am not sure it is only experience. My line manager at the moment is near retirement and he is appalling in the way he treats people - do it my way or else attitude. You have probably met many like that. The top boss is just over half my age and is terrific. He listens and takes in what people say which encourages them to contribute but he then decides. He explains why we have to do it that way and how we will all benefit.
I myself have had different management jobs but am now close to early retirement and work part time and am finding it very nice to be near the bottom of the ladder again for the next few years. There are lots of good managers but few excellent ones and they usually move on quickly to better themselves. We could talk for hours on this topic and probably end up in the same place describing the same type of person.

Re: O/T - General Election : Sun Apr 23, 2017 4:54 pm  

I have been a gaffa and a employer, now I'm just a normal employee. I have always thought, from both sides of the fence, a happy worker is a good worker. Create the best environment as a boss and your workers give more

Re: O/T - General Election : Sun Apr 23, 2017 5:19 pm  

billypop wrote: Not true. https://fullfact.org/europe/did-auditor ... eu-budget/ Sorry about the choice of words. Delete never been audited insert rarely passed as correct. Still wondering about the first 20 years figures.

billypop wrote: Not true. https://fullfact.org/europe/did-auditor ... eu-budget/ Sorry about the choice of words. Delete never been audited insert rarely passed as correct. Still wondering about the first 20 years figures.

[Bulliac]

Re: O/T - General Election : Sun Apr 23, 2017 5:22 pm  

woolly07 wrote:

Bulliac, I was just picking up on the "strong" word and it reminded me of many conversations down the years about what makes a good leader / boss.
It is a good point you make about how different people need a different approach. I used to think it all came down to experience but I am not sure it is only experience. My line manager at the moment is near retirement and he is appalling in the way he treats people - do it my way or else attitude. You have probably met many like that. The top boss is just over half my age and is terrific. He listens and takes in what people say which encourages them to contribute but he then decides. He explains why we have to do it that way and how we will all benefit.
I myself have had different management jobs but am now close to early retirement and work part time and am finding it very nice to be near the bottom of the ladder again for the next few years. There are lots of good managers but few excellent ones and they usually move on quickly to better themselves. We could talk for hours on this topic and probably end up in the same place describing the same type of person.

I've had all sorts over the years mate. I keep saying that, "one day I'll write a book", though I reckon it will remain the same unfulfilled ambition it is now!

Re: O/T - General Election : Sun Apr 23, 2017 7:37 pm  

Ginger wrote:

That is clearly not the case. I'm sure very few people's main driver is to hand power to global corporations.

The poll results on this thread are interesting and do seem to reflect wider society where a left leaning minority are more vocal on social media, whilst a silent majority tend to vote right.

For me, the left have to find a way of engaging those who vote right that doesn't tell them they are racist, stupid, xenophobic etc. And they need to recognise the value of strong leadership. People like to follow a strong leader. Even if it's not quite down the path they'd like.

I think you missed my point, I am sure the majority of people who voted for Brexit do not want this to happen - but the Brexit leaders: Farage, Banks, and the Tory hard-right certainly do even if they don't care to say it.

[Bulliac]

Re: O/T - General Election : Mon Apr 24, 2017 10:13 am  

Northernrelic wrote:

I think you missed my point, I am sure the majority of people who voted for Brexit do not want this to happen - but the Brexit leaders: Farage, Banks, and the Tory hard-right certainly do even if they don't care to say it.

What's more relic, if we are desperate enough to find trade agreements, and we accept a TTIP type deal from the 'good ol' USA, that's exactly what we'll get. From being "run by" a democratic EU to being run by undemocratic multi nationals - some "taking back control".

Re: O/T - General Election : Mon Apr 24, 2017 11:13 pm  

You are right Bulliac, you cannot just rock up, shake a few hands and get a good trade deal as the Brexiters seem to think as:
1) Most Trade deals now take up to 10 years to negotiate
2) After 40 years in the EU the UK actually doesn't have enough trained negotiators and is trying to poach them from the Kiwis.
3) Big countries get better deals, small countries get f*****d over, so Britain has cleverly gone from being part of the world's largest trading bloc to being out on our lonesome
4) I think it was Liam Fox who went and asked the Indians if they fancied a Free Trade Deal with what was left of the of the former UK, they said maybe if you give freer access to Indian citizens going to the UK! But they were very polite and asked Liam if his job as paid front man for a shady far right lobby group - sorry cabinet minister was going well.
Its all going to be even harder than signing a couple of decent front rowers for the Bulls!