FORUMS FORUMS






RLFANS.COM
Celebrating
25 years service to
the Rugby League
Community!

   WWW.RLFANS.COM • View topic - Latest financial situation - all posts here
mat 
RankPostsTeam
Player Coach9549
JoinedServiceReputation
Jun 22 200519 years284th
OnlineLast PostLast Page
18th Mar 24 19:446th Feb 24 18:33LINK
Milestone Posts
5000
10000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
bradford

Cibaman wrote:
I think the insinuation is that they never included VAT on the season tickets, hence HMRC wouldn't have initially known there was a VAT liability to send them reminders about. .

Wouldn't hmrc have picked up on fact a business, which was previously paying vat on 10k+ gate receipts (x13 games per yr), and had been making similar sized payments for the previous decade, was suddenly paying next to nothing. Would have thought that would be caught in first yr at the longest.
RankPostsTeam
Player Coach3124No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Apr 25 200618 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
6th Sep 16 18:072nd Sep 16 21:29LINK
Milestone Posts
2500
5000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
riding the back of a flying pig
Signature
YOU CAN LEARN FROM THE PAST BUT NOT RELIVE IT.YOU CAN HOPE FOR THE FUTURE BUT CAN NEVER BE SURE THERE WILL BE ONE.

It `d have been a darn sight less than a year.When we had a business we paid our vat every 3 months and we never dared be late .You get regular letters telling you about late payments and the fines you get if you do not pay on time.They are not hollow threats and some of our friends ran up against them so ours were always paid promptly.Even when they took their time to repay money owed to us we always paid what we owed them promptly.
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
International Star1795No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jan 19 201113 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
12th Apr 21 08:084th Jan 21 14:28LINK
Milestone Posts
1000
2500
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530

mat wrote:
Wouldn't hmrc have picked up on fact a business, which was previously paying vat on 10k+ gate receipts (x13 games per yr), and had been making similar sized payments for the previous decade, was suddenly paying next to nothing. Would have thought that would be caught in first yr at the longest.


Correct mat. The vat mans computers do sense checks on returns and if a figure is outside whatever parameters they set you get a phone call asking for an explanation and a date for an inspection. the question is the parameters they set: in my experience it is when you make a reclaim after consistently paying, but that was a good few years ago and they may well have fine tuned the parameters. certainly the Bulls would be a big reduction that would eventually have been picked up in an inspection visit, even then the club might have fought it however googling bradford bulls VAT appeal does not come up with anything.

PS just googled "VAT on club memberships" and OK i've only skimmed it: although it says that rugby league clubs are a sporting activity to which it applies, it also says that social or NON PLAYING MEMBERSHIP subscriptions are STANDARD RATED, which is in VAT Notice 701/45 (revised Aug 2011). It also says that commercial enterprises are not eligible bodies, and I dont think Bulls Holdings have secretly converted to a charity.

So there it is. My instincts based on a rule of thumb calculation, subsequently voiced by another poster, that two years VAT would cause instant admin are supported by the VAT Notices. you would have to be a real weasel of a VAT advisor to get anything significant past the rules. Anybody see a credible weasel at Odsal a couple of years ago?

Adey can you come back please!
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
Player Coach7018
JoinedServiceReputation
Dec 21 200716 years137th
OnlineLast PostLast Page
18th Mar 24 15:1516th Mar 24 19:37LINK
Milestone Posts
5000
10000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Signature
nosorożce biorą to w dupę

Anyone hear Coulby on Radio Leeds?

Apprantly PAYE wasn't paid for April and HMRC gave the club 24 hours to pay up.

This may be the case but in my experience of dealing with HMRC they've actually been one of the more reasonable creditors to deal with. I honestly have not come across such a thing. Still that's what we are being told!

Everything that comes out of the club leaves me with more questions than answers. I really don't know what to think so I'm avoiding all this and will just concentrate on chearing the lads on next week. I'll find out soon enough what's happening.
dboy 
RankPostsTeam
Player Coach4115
JoinedServiceReputation
Oct 12 200518 years108th
OnlineLast PostLast Page
18th Mar 24 22:1417th Mar 24 17:40LINK
Milestone Posts
2500
5000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Barnsley

Maccbull_BigBullyBooaza wrote:
Apprantly PAYE wasn't paid for April and HMRC gave the club 24 hours to pay up.

This may be the case but in my experience of dealing with HMRC they've actually been one of the more reasonable creditors to deal with. I honestly have not come across such a thing.



No, it happened before and it's actually what tipped Wakefield, who also had a standing agreement with HMRC.

The stitch up between the RFL and Crusaders effectively robbed the HMRC out of what had previously been agreed (by Crusaders, underwritten by the RFL).

Hence HMRC revoked all standing agreements with RFL members (e.g. Wakefield), and will not make further staged payment agreements.

Wakefield's dept became payable overnight (bye bye Mr Richardson, hello administrator), and no leeway will be given to other club's now.

You owe, you pay.
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
International Star8990
JoinedServiceReputation
Sep 26 200914 years286th
OnlineLast PostLast Page
26th Sep 23 15:5026th Sep 23 15:50LINK
Milestone Posts
5000
10000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Leeds
Signature
We can be bold enough to make a stand and do battle for our views and beliefs. But we must strive to be mature enough not to resort to unnecessary personal attacks upon people with opposing views.

Didn't the administrators for Wakey actually sell players to keep the club going until a new buyer was found. Either to produce cash to keep it as a going concern or to reduce the debt to make it more attractive to a new buyer.

Could this be the result for Bradford, if administrators come in would one of their first ideas be to start looking at that alleged 6 figure offer from Warrington? Or does it depend who calls in the administrators, ie the club or the HMRC???
mat 
RankPostsTeam
Player Coach9549
JoinedServiceReputation
Jun 22 200519 years284th
OnlineLast PostLast Page
18th Mar 24 19:446th Feb 24 18:33LINK
Milestone Posts
5000
10000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
bradford

bewareshadows wrote:
Didn't the administrators for Wakey actually sell players to keep the club going until a new buyer was found. Either to produce cash to keep it as a going concern or to reduce the debt to make it more attractive to a new buyer.

Could this be the result for Bradford, if administrators come in would one of their first ideas be to start looking at that alleged 6 figure offer from Warrington? Or does it depend who calls in the administrators, ie the club or the HMRC???


from memory glover either wasnt in the frame or had only just shown an interest at point admin were called in at wakey. he had to pass fit and proper person checks at RFL before he bought the club hence a delay of a week or two and admininstrators selling players.

Bit different situation here as its going to caisley (or a consortium fronted by him) who takeover and he's already passed the fit and proper person test, which was confirmed by RFL in a T&A article a few weeks ago. So the delay in the changeover should be much reduced.
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
International Board Member14145No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Dec 22 200122 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
16th Aug 20 18:2727th Oct 19 01:15LINK
Milestone Posts
10000
15000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
At the Gates of Delirium

bewareshadows wrote:
Didn't the administrators for Wakey actually sell players to keep the club going until a new buyer was found. Either to produce cash to keep it as a going concern or to reduce the debt to make it more attractive to a new buyer.

Could this be the result for Bradford, if administrators come in would one of their first ideas be to start looking at that alleged 6 figure offer from Warrington? Or does it depend who calls in the administrators, ie the club or the HMRC???

HMRC cannot appoint administrators. No unsecured creditor can.

The directors can; a debenture holder can intervene and see their own nominee appointed. But the whole point of administration is to protect the business from its creditors while a sale as some sort of a going concern is sought.
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
International Board Member14145No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Dec 22 200122 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
16th Aug 20 18:2727th Oct 19 01:15LINK
Milestone Posts
10000
15000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
At the Gates of Delirium

Maccbull_BigBullyBooaza wrote:
Anyone hear Coulby on Radio Leeds?

Apprantly PAYE wasn't paid for April and HMRC gave the club 24 hours to pay up.

This may be the case but in my experience of dealing with HMRC they've actually been one of the more reasonable creditors to deal with. I honestly have not come across such a thing. Still that's what we are being told!

Everything that comes out of the club leaves me with more questions than answers. I really don't know what to think so I'm avoiding all this and will just concentrate on chearing the lads on next week. I'll find out soon enough what's happening.

The April PAYE was due 22 May (if paid electronically) so that is totally down to the new board. I suspect the old board timed their standing down quite carefully.

And yes, HMRC ARE normally reasonable when you are a struggling business doing your best. But they have had their fingers burned so many times in the leisure sector in general, and with sports clubs in particular, that they have totally lost patience.

Know what? I do not blame HMRC one bit. Why the hell should a sports club use money it has deducted from employee salaries, or collected from customers - money that was never its own in the first bloody place - to fund its operations? I have said in the past that IMO it is tantamount to theft if the business goes under and such monies are not paid, and it would be totally hypocritical of me to suggest the Bulls should be any exception. It is a bloody disgrace, whoever is responsible.
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
Player Coach3859No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Feb 09 200519 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
16th Jul 17 18:2016th Jul 17 17:21LINK
Milestone Posts
2500
5000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Manchester

BBC Look North: #Bradford Bulls director tells @harrylooknorth about possible investment to save the club after winding-up order. More at 10.25 BBC1.
PreviousNext

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Betsy Bulls, financialtimes and 252 guests

REPLY

Subject: 
Message:
   
Please note using apple style emoji's can result in posting failures.
Use the FULL EDITOR to better format content or upload images, be notified of replies etc...

Return to Bradford Bulls


RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
3m
RD 5 St Helens H
ArthurClues
281
15m
Good Friday
Mark_P1973
61
21m
Other Championship Clubs
Wildthing
75
27m
Giants in the Cup - can we get Up for the Cup
Tarquin Fueg
73
29m
2024 Challenge Cup Sixth Round Draw
RAPIDO
7
47m
Ky Rodwell
Khlav Kalash
58
49m
Smith - should he stay or should he go
mwindass
177
52m
Shopping list for 2025
mwindass
286
Recent
This weeks disciplinary
CW8
991
Recent
Injuries/Suspensions
Betsy Bulls
12
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
43s
Dreadful - Watsons future
Murphy
14
43s
Ky Rodwell
Khlav Kalash
58
1m
Giants in the Cup - can we get Up for the Cup
Tarquin Fueg
73
1m
This weeks disciplinary
CW8
991
1m
Shopping list for 2025
mwindass
286
1m
Charlie Birdsall RIP
hull2524
12
2m
ALL NEW 49ERS ERA LEEDS UTD THREAD
leedsbarmyar
1364
2m
Oliver Holmes
LeythIg
4
2m
Wire at home
Smithers99
60
2m
Dons v York Sunday 17th March 2024 3pm
Wilf Grimsha
40
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Programmes for sale
Brian Middle
1
TODAY
Aussie programmes and books for sale
Brian Middle
1
TODAY
Widnes programmes for sale
Brian Middle
1
TODAY
Mark Campbell to step down at Fev
RoyBoy29
1
TODAY
RL Podcasts
RL Outsiders
1
TODAY
Oliver Holmes
LeythIg
4
TODAY
New Poster
BarnsleyTrin
9
TODAY
Easy Win for the Wolves Over London Moves Them Top
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Todays match v London
rubber ducki
61
TODAY
Charlie Birdsall RIP
hull2524
12
TODAY
Total rl
Bullseye
4
TODAY
Giants in the Cup - can we get Up for the Cup
Tarquin Fueg
73
TODAY
Sheffield
moto748
3
TODAY
Road Roller Required to flatten & Press
Start@1873
3
TODAY
Dragons Condemn Castleford To Another Loss
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Dreadful - Watsons future
Murphy
14
TODAY
Smith - should he stay or should he go
mwindass
177
TODAY
Leigh Leopards Secure First Points Of The Season In Style
Budgiezilla
2
TODAY
Hull FC
PopTart
13
TODAY
Oliver Russell
Wollo-Wollo-
5
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
Easy Win for the Wolves Over L..
269
Dragons Condemn Castleford To ..
349
Leigh Leopards Secure First Po..
454
St Helens Tame The Rhinos To W..
472
Wigan Warriors Come From Behin..
571
Betfred Championship and Leagu..
642
2024 Challenge Cup Sixth Round..
3381
Featherstone Win Extra Time Cu..
854
Dragons Triumph Over Hull FC t..
751
Leeds Rhinos Win Game of Two H..
964
Warrington Beat Hull KR In Bre..
868
Hull FC Win At The Death To Cr..
1163
Salford Red Devils Spoil Hull ..
966
Leeds Rhinos Battle Hard for D..
1132
Warriors Maintain Great Start ..
1138
POSTSONLINEREGISTRATIONSRECORD
19.56M +13,174 79,99614,103
LOGIN HERE
or REGISTER for more features!.

When you register you get access to the live match scores, live match chat and you can post in the discussions on the forums.
RLFANS Match Centre
 Fri 29th Mar
Championship 2024-R2
19:30
Bradford
v
Halifax
 Sun 12th May 2024
1895 Cup 2024-R5
15:00
Bradford
v
Wakefield
ALL SCORES PROVIDED BY RLFANS.COM (SETTINGS)
Matches on TV
Fri 22nd Mar
CC2024
20:00
Leeds-St.Helens
Sat 23rd Mar
CC2024
14:00
Leigh-Featherstone
Thu 28th Mar
SL
20:00
Castleford-Leeds
Fri 29th Mar
SL
12:30
Hull KR-Hull FC
SL
15:00
St.Helens-Wigan
Sat 30th Mar
SL
15:00
Warrington-Catalans
SL
17:30
Salford-Leigh
Sun 31st Mar
SL
15:00
LondonB-Huddersfield
Thu 4th Apr
SL
20:00
Leigh-Wigan
Fri 5th Apr
SL
20:00
Castleford-Salford
SL
20:00
Hull KR-LondonB
SL
20:00
Leeds-Warrington
Sat 6th Apr
SL
15:00
Hull FC-Huddersfield
SL
17:30
Catalans-St.Helens
Fri 19th Apr
SL
20:00
Leeds-Huddersfield
SL
20:00
St.Helens-Hull FC
SL
20:00
Wigan-Castleford
Sat 20th Apr
SL
15:00
Warrington-Leigh
SL
17:30
Catalans-Hull KR
Sun 21st Apr
SL
15:00
LondonB-Salford
Sun 17th Mar
SL 5 LondonB4-58Warrington
WOMCC2024 1 Shef W10-76York V
WOMCC2024 1 Sal W0-68WiganW
WOMCC2024 1 Lei L W4-52LeedsW
CH 1 Batley20-24Featherstone
CH 1 Dewsbury10-24Halifax
CH 1 Doncaster36-20York
CH 1 Whitehaven18-16Swinton
CH 1 Widnes44-8Barrow
NRL 2 Manly21-14Sydney
NRL 2 Dolphins38-0St.George
Sat 16th Mar
SL 5 Huddersfield12-24Hull KR
SL 5 Hull FC4-54Leigh
SL 5 Catalans40-14Castleford
WOMCC2024 1 Card Wom22-16BarrowW
WOMCC2024 1 BradfordW4-52Wire W
WOMCC2024 1 St.HelensW64-0LonB W
WOMCC2024 1 Hudds W74-0HKR Wom
NRL 2 Canberra32-12Wests
NRL 2 NQL Cowboys21-20Newcastle
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Mens Betfred Super League XXVIII ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Warrington 5 156 58 98 8
Wigan 4 144 54 90 8
St.Helens 5 118 40 78 8
Catalans 5 126 54 72 8
Hull KR 5 98 63 35 6
Leeds 5 82 82 0 6
 
Salford 5 95 96 -1 6
Huddersfield 5 94 98 -4 4
Leigh 4 82 54 28 2
Hull FC 5 54 162 -108 2
Castleford 5 56 178 -122 0
LondonB 5 54 220 -166 0
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Betfred Championship 2024 ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Widnes 1 44 8 36 2
Wakefield 1 42 12 30 2
Doncaster 1 36 20 16 2
Halifax 1 24 10 14 2
Featherstone 1 24 20 4 2
Sheffield 1 24 22 2 2
 
Whitehaven 1 18 16 2 2
Toulouse 1 22 24 -2 0
Swinton 1 16 18 -2 0
Batley 1 20 24 -4 0
Dewsbury 1 10 24 -14 0
York 1 20 36 -16 0
Bradford 1 12 42 -30 0
Barrow 1 8 44 -36 0
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
3m
RD 5 St Helens H
ArthurClues
281
15m
Good Friday
Mark_P1973
61
21m
Other Championship Clubs
Wildthing
75
27m
Giants in the Cup - can we get Up for the Cup
Tarquin Fueg
73
29m
2024 Challenge Cup Sixth Round Draw
RAPIDO
7
47m
Ky Rodwell
Khlav Kalash
58
49m
Smith - should he stay or should he go
mwindass
177
52m
Shopping list for 2025
mwindass
286
Recent
This weeks disciplinary
CW8
991
Recent
Injuries/Suspensions
Betsy Bulls
12
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
43s
Dreadful - Watsons future
Murphy
14
43s
Ky Rodwell
Khlav Kalash
58
1m
Giants in the Cup - can we get Up for the Cup
Tarquin Fueg
73
1m
This weeks disciplinary
CW8
991
1m
Shopping list for 2025
mwindass
286
1m
Charlie Birdsall RIP
hull2524
12
2m
ALL NEW 49ERS ERA LEEDS UTD THREAD
leedsbarmyar
1364
2m
Oliver Holmes
LeythIg
4
2m
Wire at home
Smithers99
60
2m
Dons v York Sunday 17th March 2024 3pm
Wilf Grimsha
40
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Programmes for sale
Brian Middle
1
TODAY
Aussie programmes and books for sale
Brian Middle
1
TODAY
Widnes programmes for sale
Brian Middle
1
TODAY
Mark Campbell to step down at Fev
RoyBoy29
1
TODAY
RL Podcasts
RL Outsiders
1
TODAY
Oliver Holmes
LeythIg
4
TODAY
New Poster
BarnsleyTrin
9
TODAY
Easy Win for the Wolves Over London Moves Them Top
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Todays match v London
rubber ducki
61
TODAY
Charlie Birdsall RIP
hull2524
12
TODAY
Total rl
Bullseye
4
TODAY
Giants in the Cup - can we get Up for the Cup
Tarquin Fueg
73
TODAY
Sheffield
moto748
3
TODAY
Road Roller Required to flatten & Press
Start@1873
3
TODAY
Dragons Condemn Castleford To Another Loss
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Dreadful - Watsons future
Murphy
14
TODAY
Smith - should he stay or should he go
mwindass
177
TODAY
Leigh Leopards Secure First Points Of The Season In Style
Budgiezilla
2
TODAY
Hull FC
PopTart
13
TODAY
Oliver Russell
Wollo-Wollo-
5
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
Easy Win for the Wolves Over L..
269
Dragons Condemn Castleford To ..
349
Leigh Leopards Secure First Po..
454
St Helens Tame The Rhinos To W..
472
Wigan Warriors Come From Behin..
571
Betfred Championship and Leagu..
642
2024 Challenge Cup Sixth Round..
3381
Featherstone Win Extra Time Cu..
854
Dragons Triumph Over Hull FC t..
751
Leeds Rhinos Win Game of Two H..
964
Warrington Beat Hull KR In Bre..
868
Hull FC Win At The Death To Cr..
1163
Salford Red Devils Spoil Hull ..
966
Leeds Rhinos Battle Hard for D..
1132
Warriors Maintain Great Start ..
1138


Visit the RLFANS.COM SHOP
for more merchandise!