Re: 2019 | Squad : Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:04 pm  

I think there is a good player there in Sutcliffe but there’s only so long you can persevere. Whatever position he’s gone to, be it stand off, full back or centre, he’s looked good initially and then very much faded away.
I understand why people are looking at him for second row but I don’t think he’s got the defensive durability/heart/willingness to defend like you need to in the 2nd row, or to run the hard line that you know is going to hurt but still needs to be run.

I agree he came up with some moments to win us games, but I also think he contributed to us struggling in some games too with his poor decision making.

I’m not at all saying get rid now, however he only has a season or 2 left to stake his claim.
He doesn’t have a starting 13 spot this year with Lolohea and Hurrell signed so it’ll be interesting to see where he’s played.

Re: 2019 | Squad : Wed Nov 21, 2018 3:54 am  

I said before if Sutcliffe wants to move into the forwards permanently he needs to accept going on loan/DR for a good period to learn his trade in the lower leagues. He can't expect to be given yet another chance to learn on the job in the first team.

In his defence, as a stand off he clearly has major limitations, as did Moon, but IMO they were exposed more fully by playing in a team with apparently very little idea about structure or gameplan. That might have worked with Sinfield and McGuire, but its a bit of a recipe for disaster for an inexperienced halfback. Furner has mentioned attacking structure, and he worked wonders with Souths attack this year even succeeding in helping Adam Reynolds look like more than just a kicker for the first time in his career. So its possible that Sutcliffe could look much better at 6 under Furner. I'm also not sure he couldn't have developed further at another club.

In the end though careers are sometimes as much about timing as ability, and Sutcliffe may end up leaving and go down as another might have been.

Re: 2019 | Squad : Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:11 am  

He's played over 100 games for Leeds.

He's played in numerous positions + not looked good in any. So what do we do? Try him in the 2nd row + forward positions only to realise "oh yeah he's sh-te he can't play in the forwards either"

Pointless. He needs to go

Re: 2019 | Squad : Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:28 am  

I tend to agree TBH. I just think his limitations were exposed more than they might have been last year.

Re: 2019 | Squad : Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:58 am  

I'd give Sutcliffe one more year. If Furner can't turn him into a good player then there's no hope and he can go end of season

Re: 2019 | Squad : Wed Nov 21, 2018 7:02 am  

Can't argue with that. Is his deal up at the end of the season?

Re: 2019 | Squad : Wed Nov 21, 2018 10:46 am  

In my humble opinion Sutcliffe would make a cracking loose forward and is becoming a very very good goal kicker,something the team will need if Watkins knee restrict him kicking

Re: 2019 | Squad : Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:22 am  

Lanzarote Rhino wrote:

In my humble opinion Sutcliffe would make a cracking loose forward and is becoming a very very good goal kicker,something the team will need if Watkins knee restrict him kicking

Would he make a better loose forward than Ward or Cam Smith though? and yet they are not given the opportunity there. That is what should be more in the thought process of keeping Sutcliffe. Would he be better than what we have in a specific position. I am not sure that can be said for any position he plays.

Re: 2019 | Squad : Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:44 am  

Sutcliffe's natural game would come on a ton if he had proper support runners running decent lines - structure, in other words. That applies whether you put him in the halves, LF, 2nd row, wherever. Many don't rate him because he doesn't break the line and doesn't set up much. He hasn't the build or pace to do the former yet without the runners to pass to, his frequent choice of dying with the ball is actually the correct call. In desperate times, he forces things resulting in the brain farts & brilliance performances of the back end of last season.
He could be a real good player for us but if Leeds aren't going to play to his strengths we may as well move him on for his sake as much as ours. Personally, I think he might have been better than Williams had he played in recent wigan sides.

Re: 2019 | Squad : Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:08 pm  

Clearwing wrote:

Sutcliffe's natural game would come on a ton if he had proper support runners running decent lines - structure, in other words. That applies whether you put him in the halves, LF, 2nd row, wherever. Many don't rate him because he doesn't break the line and doesn't set up much. He hasn't the build or pace to do the former yet without the runners to pass to, his frequent choice of dying with the ball is actually the correct call. In desperate times, he forces things resulting in the brain farts & brilliance performances of the back end of last season.
He could be a real good player for us but if Leeds aren't going to play to his strengths we may as well move him on for his sake as much as ours. Personally, I think he might have been better than Williams had he played in recent wigan sides.

Sutcliffe with continuing game time might end up having a great game, but I doubt very much that whatever club he had have been at, that he would be any better player than he is today. He simply does not have the ability in him to be a star. He was never anything close to Williams, and to be fair it is pretty daft to suggest otherwise. He has been incredibly lucky to have played the amount of games he has, and that said more about Leeds options than him as a player.

I dissagree on your point of his game, because I think he can and does break the line, but he most definitely does not set up others, and most definitely him dying with the ball in most cases is not the right call. There was not one brilliant performance at the back end of last season by the way, even when he made the difference he was very poor for the majority of a game. He hasn't given anything close to brilliant since the start of 2015, although to be fair his team mates have hardly excelled consistently there either.

There is a valid point made in playing to peoples strength, but at the same time it needs to be acknowledged it is a team game and each plays their part. You are only as strong as your weakest link. If he can't adapt to that, then he is not the player your are implying.