Re: CONFIRMED | Four Youngsters to Bradford on 1 Month Loans : Tue Feb 07, 2017 3:26 pm  

Biff Tannen wrote:

Mal Meninga and Gene Miles would still be two of the very best centres around in any era, absolute beasts.

yep, and meninga could not get in the side in kangaroo side in 86 as brett kenny played centre, and he was not too shabby there either for a stand off. thought sutcliffe had/has a brett kenny look about him, but not too Sure now.

Re: CONFIRMED | Four Youngsters to Bradford on 1 Month Loans : Tue Feb 07, 2017 4:50 pm  

rollin thunder wrote:

Meninga as well as being big heavy and powerful for the day, was surprising pacey, but what also set him aside was he had good hands and sublime passing skills a real wingers Centre.

But now he would be thought of as neither particularly big nor particularly heavy nor particularly fast. he is giv9ng away about 5inches on Inglis.

Re: CONFIRMED | Four Youngsters to Bradford on 1 Month Loans : Wed Feb 08, 2017 5:51 am  

Meninga and Miles of the 80s would not be 'beasts' today. They'd be unfit and nothing like as powerful as they are remembered being. Assuming they trained in the latest ways, its possible they would be beasts - but they wouldn't have the same skills, and wouldn't be anywhere near as physically dominant as they were in their heyday. Its also possible that with all the training etc neither would even play in the centres.

One skill which is almost infinitely better than back then across RL is kicking in general play. When the handover on the 6th came in (83-84) all most teams could muster was the bomb. There were no halfbacks anywhere who had a kicking game that would rival Johns, Cronk or Thurston. I don't believe these skills were ever possessed by any previous generation of halfbacks either, as they simply weren't required to the accuracy or frequency they are now.

Re: CONFIRMED | Four Youngsters to Bradford on 1 Month Loans : Wed Feb 08, 2017 1:46 pm  

BrisbaneRhino wrote:

One skill which is almost infinitely better than back then across RL is kicking in general play. When the handover on the 6th came in (83-84) all most teams could muster was the bomb. There were no halfbacks anywhere who had a kicking game that would rival Johns, Cronk or Thurston. I don't believe these skills were ever possessed by any previous generation of halfbacks either, as they simply weren't required to the accuracy or frequency they are now.

Interesting point and one I'd agree with, with the possible exception of the short kick. It's now pretty much only deployed near to the line (McGuire setting up Hall to win the hubcap being an exception). Back in the day, greater space meant it could be used to good effect in a greater variety of situations. Although thinking about it a bit more, the actual skill level required was probably no greater.
The bomb brings me back to Mal Reilly (again). Not only could he put it miles up, he was the first player that I saw who deliberately imparted spin and wobble. Or at least he was by far and away at making the ball do so. Throw in the tackling techniques of yesteryear and any would-be catcher really did have their work cut out.

[Bullseye]

Re: CONFIRMED | Four Youngsters to Bradford on 1 Month Loans : Wed Feb 08, 2017 3:42 pm  

BrisbaneRhino wrote:

Meninga and Miles of the 80s would not be 'beasts' today. They'd be unfit and nothing like as powerful as they are remembered being. Assuming they trained in the latest ways, its possible they would be beasts - but they wouldn't have the same skills, and wouldn't be anywhere near as physically dominant as they were in their heyday. Its also possible that with all the training etc neither would even play in the centres.

They would have the same skills now as in the 80s but perhaps less opportunity to use them as defences would be tighter now. I think they'd both still stand out. Miles's skill level would still set him apart even with fewer opportunities to display it. As I remember both (but mainly Miles) had spells in the backrow. I could see that happening more in the modern era. As for their physical attributes, both bulked up quite a bit during their careers, they certainly had the physical frame to benefit from modern methods. I see no reason why they couldn't be as powerful as their contemporaries if they played now.

BrisbaneRhino wrote:

One skill which is almost infinitely better than back then across RL is kicking in general play. When the handover on the 6th came in (83-84) all most teams could muster was the bomb. There were no halfbacks anywhere who had a kicking game that would rival Johns, Cronk or Thurston. I don't believe these skills were ever possessed by any previous generation of halfbacks either, as they simply weren't required to the accuracy or frequency they are now.

I'm not sure I completely agree as I remember halfbacks using the short chip a lot more in the 70s and 80s than is done now. I also remember the likes of Paul Harkin and Deryck Fox having incredibly varied kicking games (it made up for their relative lack of pace). I think a reason kicking was less important was that there was more of a genuine competition for possession in the 70s and 80s so more incentive to run the ball. Back then a side had a reasonable chance of winning the ball against the head at the scrum or even striking at the play the ball.

I watched a game from the 80s recently and there was far less long kicking and far more scrums - simply because you had a better chance of getting possession back.

I think the loss of the battle for possession has made RL a bit duller and more predictable in some ways.

Am I off topic enough yet?

Re: CONFIRMED | Four Youngsters to Bradford on 1 Month Loans : Wed Feb 08, 2017 3:51 pm  

Bullseye wrote:

I'm not sure I completely agree as I remember halfbacks using the short chip a lot more in the 70s and 80s than is done now. I also remember the likes of Paul Harkin and Deryck Fox having incredibly varied kicking games (it made up for their relative lack of pace). I think a reason kicking was less important was that there was more of a genuine competition for possession in the 70s and 80s so more incentive to run the ball. Back then a side had a reasonable chance of winning the ball against the head at the scrum or even striking at the play the ball.

Funny you should mention Fox. I watched a re run of the 1992 WC final not long back. I was at the game but was only 13 at the time so it never really registered how great Fox kicked that day, almost every kick lazer like turning the FB around or finding touch deep in the Aussies half to relieve the pressure. I know we eventually lost a tight one, but were it not for his kicking we would have been soundly beaten imo.

[Bullseye]

Re: CONFIRMED | Four Youngsters to Bradford on 1 Month Loans : Wed Feb 08, 2017 4:34 pm  

Fox did have a great boot on him. As I said I think he'd honed that skill since he lacked a bit of pace. He also had a great short kick where he could be running and looking in one direction yet be able to put a short kick in the completely opposite direction. It created a lot of tries for us and Fev.

We can all generalise about the game and what and who we think would be good or not nowadays but there are always exceptions.

Re: CONFIRMED | Four Youngsters to Bradford on 1 Month Loans : Wed Feb 08, 2017 4:36 pm  

I think both Harkin & Fox would be cracking SHs in today's game, even with their lack of pace (not that there is much competition). Harkin might even be a better player with modern fitness methods; he was always a bit of a porker, whereas I know Fox trained extremely hard for a part-timer.

Re: CONFIRMED | Four Youngsters to Bradford on 1 Month Loans : Wed Feb 08, 2017 5:03 pm  

tigertot wrote:

I think both Harkin & Fox would be cracking SHs in today's game, even with their lack of pace (not that there is much competition). Harkin might even be a better player with modern fitness methods; he was always a bit of a porker, whereas I know Fox trained extremely hard for a part-timer.

used to know Derek Fox a little bit, Very casually, as he worked at a roof tile supplier swillington way (if i remember ) used to get tiles from there and he was the fork lift driver, he was in really good shape for those days, but to be fair most late 80's early 90's players were in much better shape than people give credit for, think they trained just as hard and quality training as nowadays, just today's players maybe do it a bit more often and more importantly have better rest and recovery, and thats the big difference recovery.

back on to Lilley i likened him to a young Andy Gregory, but i'd settle for a Derek fox type player.

[Bullseye]

Re: CONFIRMED | Four Youngsters to Bradford on 1 Month Loans : Wed Feb 22, 2017 3:43 pm  

So far Oledzki is looking the most impressive. He's a big lad who always makes ground with the ball in hand. Seems to more than hold his own at this level. If he maintains his development he'll make a SL player no danger.