Re: St Helens v Leeds Rhinos : Thu Nov 10, 2016 10:47 pm  

DHM wrote:

The thing is you'll be seen as negative. In reality there is considerable evidence that you are correct.

Also considerable evidence that it's an exaggeration

Re: St Helens v Leeds Rhinos : Fri Nov 11, 2016 6:58 am  

SmokeyTA wrote:

We have a top quality HB, the most successful playing in SL right now. In fact we have 2.

If we can keep a spine of Golding, Sutcliffe, McGuire, Segayaro/Burrow. We will be definitely be in with a good shot of 4th. We can even lose one with Burrow and Lilley in reserve.

If we end up going without a couple of them for a long period of time, we will probably struggle to get there.

With all due respect & i'll make it clear i aren't interested in a p!$$ing comp did you see any games last year?
Both Mags & Burrow were poor in fact on their better days they were average at best.
Given both their ages & most recent efforts id say their days as "top quality HB's" are gone.
Throw in the burden of Captaincy & the absence of Sinfield that made that triangle tick we have serious issues imo.
Granted Segeyaro will/should make a difference but we are crying out for more quality in that HB position not only that one who can mentor Lilley & if he plays there Suttcliffe.

Re: St Helens v Leeds Rhinos : Fri Nov 11, 2016 8:26 am  

RHINO-MARK wrote:

With all due respect & i'll make it clear i aren't interested in a p!$$ing comp did you see any games last year?
Both Mags & Burrow were poor in fact on their better days they were average at best.
Given both their ages & most recent efforts id say their days as "top quality HB's" are gone.
Throw in the burden of Captaincy & the absence of Sinfield that made that triangle tick we have serious issues imo.
Granted Segeyaro will/should make a difference but we are crying out for more quality in that HB position not only that one who can mentor Lilley & if he plays there Suttcliffe.

110% this

Re: St Helens v Leeds Rhinos : Fri Nov 11, 2016 8:27 am  

RHINO-MARK wrote:

With all due respect & i'll make it clear i aren't interested in a p!$$ing comp did you see any games last year?
Both Mags & Burrow were poor in fact on their better days they were average at best.
Given both their ages & most recent efforts id say their days as "top quality HB's" are gone.
Throw in the burden of Captaincy & the absence of Sinfield that made that triangle tick we have serious issues imo.
Granted Segeyaro will/should make a difference but we are crying out for more quality in that HB position not only that one who can mentor Lilley & if he plays there Suttcliffe.

Burrow was not poor last year. He was very good. Trouble is you are better with another half backs average than his very good, because he simply does not fit into a team system at all with the players we have around him. He is individualistic, and a luxury, where if you have the right team he can and will excel. This current Leeds squad is not for him. He will continue to do his darting individual runs and people will coo, and there is absolutely no doubt his presence in the dressing room is a plus, but we would get far more out of an organising good passing average half, AS A TEAM, than we get out of it with Burrow there.

Re: St Helens v Leeds Rhinos : Fri Nov 11, 2016 9:36 am  

Gotcha wrote:

Burrow was not poor last year. He was very good. Trouble is you are better with another half backs average than his very good, because he simply does not fit into a team system at all with the players we have around him. He is individualistic, and a luxury, where if you have the right team he can and will excel. This current Leeds squad is not for him. He will continue to do his darting individual runs and people will coo, and there is absolutely no doubt his presence in the dressing room is a plus, but we would get far more out of an organising good passing average half, AS A TEAM, than we get out of it with Burrow there.

that's a pretty good summary for me. For a team on the front foot and used at the right time he is still an effective weapon. I don't think we've uses him to his best last year.

Re: St Helens v Leeds Rhinos : Fri Nov 11, 2016 9:39 am  

Gotcha wrote:

Burrow was not poor last year. He was very good. Trouble is you are better with another half backs average than his very good, because he simply does not fit into a team system at all with the players we have around him. He is individualistic, and a luxury, where if you have the right team he can and will excel. This current Leeds squad is not for him. He will continue to do his darting individual runs and people will coo, and there is absolutely no doubt his presence in the dressing room is a plus, but we would get far more out of an organising good passing average half, AS A TEAM, than we get out of it with Burrow there.

Fully agree with that.

for me, for a while now Burrow has been the luxury bench hooker who can be lethal when you have a team firing. Other than that he is a stop gap for half back and dummy half when injuries occur and to be fair to him he still holds his own but is not somebody you would use to build game plans and teams around anymore.

I still think McGuire could still have one top year left in him,with a good pre season and fully fit again with a point to prove i'm prepared to hold judgement.

Re: St Helens v Leeds Rhinos : Fri Nov 11, 2016 12:27 pm  

RHINO-MARK wrote:

With all due respect & i'll make it clear i aren't interested in a p!$$ing comp did you see any games last year?
Both Mags & Burrow were poor in fact on their better days they were average at best.
Given both their ages & most recent efforts id say their days as "top quality HB's" are gone.
Throw in the burden of Captaincy & the absence of Sinfield that made that triangle tick we have serious issues imo.
Granted Segeyaro will/should make a difference but we are crying out for more quality in that HB position not only that one who can mentor Lilley & if he plays there Suttcliffe.

Burrow was fine. Good in fact. Player of the season in fact. Don't let those with their agendas fool you. Burrow is a great player But he can't be expected to do everything, which is what was put on his shoulders last year.

McGuire was injured most of the Year and coming back from injury the rest of the time. Coming back rested and revitalised he can again be one the best halves in the country. As he has many times before.

Of we suffer from injuries know those positions as we did last year we will probably struggle. If we don't, I'm more than confident that we won't.

Re: St Helens v Leeds Rhinos : Fri Nov 11, 2016 12:45 pm  

SmokeyTA wrote:

Burrow was fine. Good in fact. Player of the season in fact. Don't let those with their agendas fool you. Burrow is a great player But he can't be expected to do everything, which is what was put on his shoulders last year.

McGuire was injured most of the Year and coming back from injury the rest of the time. Coming back rested and revitalised he can again be one the best halves in the country. As he has many times before.

Of we suffer from injuries know those positions as we did last year we will probably struggle. If we don't, I'm more than confident that we won't.

I don`t agree that Burrow was good or anywhere near to player of the season last year.
Poor at half back as he did not have a controlling SO by his side or even one that could compensate for the lack of tackling at HB
At hooker he was even worse and at acting half probably even worse than that.
McGuire had an ok season in 2015 excelling towards the business end of that season.
Last year he was hit by one injury after the other but when he did play he was one of the worse HB in the competition.
Whilst he had a reasonable 2015 he was not that brilliant throughout the season.
I think we need them both to capture their form from a few years back to give us any chance of a top 4 finish and even then that`s ambitious.
I see our rivals strenghtening and us hoping.
I for one would be delighted to be proved wrong and this is the year we can really ram it home to the others if this team performs and wins something.
But I just cannot see it.

Re: RD 1 | St Helens A : Fri Nov 11, 2016 12:53 pm  

Getting Burrow back on the bench will help both us and him this year. I'd agree with the posts previous, he is a bit of a luxury, who still has a role in a team that is firing. That role is not a starting 9 or scrum half.

If Mcguire gets fit, he deserves a chance to regain the decent form from 2015. Did he play more than 2 games back to back last year?

Re: St Helens v Leeds Rhinos : Fri Nov 11, 2016 3:19 pm  

SmokeyTA wrote:

Burrow was fine. Good in fact. Player of the season in fact. Don't let those with their agendas fool you. Burrow is a great player But he can't be expected to do everything, which is what was put on his shoulders last year.

McGuire was injured most of the Year and coming back from injury the rest of the time. Coming back rested and revitalised he can again be one the best halves in the country. As he has many times before.

Of we suffer from injuries know those positions as we did last year we will probably struggle. If we don't, I'm more than confident that we won't.

What "Agenda".
Just to clarify my opinions are just that no agendas no trolling & i stand by what i wrote above.
Just to add Burrow "HAS BEEN" a great player & that's my main point its in the past & both he & Mags have struggled to operate without the lynchpin that was Sinfield.
Off the bench as an impact 9 then yea fair enough RB probably has a year or so in that role but as a 7 not imo & neither should be Captain either.
Finally BOTH are on the verge of the end of their careers so id also say thats another crucial reason we need a quality HB now.