Re: Goalkicking : Sat Feb 06, 2016 7:13 am  

While I agree practice and time are only going to improve Hardaker's success rate, he looked a long long way from being a SL standard kicker.
Sinfield may well have improved over the years but I don't remember his technique been as poor as Hardaker's as a starting point.
I would let him carry on for now if he feels that he can master it, but if things show no signs of improvement after a few weeks then it may be time to look at other options.

Re: Goalkicking : Sat Feb 06, 2016 8:32 am  

The Magic Rat wrote:

While I agree practice and time are only going to improve Hardaker's success rate, he looked a long long way from being a SL standard kicker.
Sinfield may well have improved over the years but I don't remember his technique been as poor as Hardaker's as a starting point.
I would let him carry on for now if he feels that he can master it, but if things show no signs of improvement after a few weeks then it may be time to look at other options.

You can assess improvement during the week. No point letting Zak arrive on match day and asking him to kick if during training he hasn't progressed. We have already seen what we will get with zero improvement. If a better kicker is on the pitch then it goes to him. Lilley is better.

Re: Goalkicking : Sat Feb 06, 2016 8:42 am  

I always though burrow was quite a good kicker. I guess the same applies as it does to lilley in that he may not be on the field all the time. But then I don't see the problem in passing over the duties when he comes on. May take a bit of pressure off Hardaker, whilst still giving him opportunity to practise kicking first team until eventually taking over completely or, giving it to Lilly when he plays more regularly. Who to me seems very natural kicker, level headed and full of confidence.

Re: Goalkicking : Sat Feb 06, 2016 9:19 am  

Joshheff90 wrote: I always though burrow was quite a good kicker. I guess the same applies as it does to lilley in that he may not be on the field all the time. But then I don't see the problem in passing over the duties when he comes on. May take a bit of pressure off Hardaker, whilst still giving him opportunity to practise kicking first team until eventually taking over completely or, giving it to Lilly when he plays more regularly. Who to me seems very natural kicker, level headed and full of confidence. Agree with all of this posting.php?mode=quote&f=17&p=18282852#

Joshheff90 wrote: I always though burrow was quite a good kicker. I guess the same applies as it does to lilley in that he may not be on the field all the time. But then I don't see the problem in passing over the duties when he comes on. May take a bit of pressure off Hardaker, whilst still giving him opportunity to practise kicking first team until eventually taking over completely or, giving it to Lilly when he plays more regularly. Who to me seems very natural kicker, level headed and full of confidence. Agree with all of this posting.php?mode=quote&f=17&p=18282852#

Re: Goalkicking : Sat Feb 06, 2016 1:16 pm  

Just as a matter of interest (and I collect the figures so why not post them) here is a complete list of Leeds kickers used over the period 2004 to (and including) Friday night's game:

Name ….. Attempts ….. Kicked ….. Success %
Kevin Sinfield ….. 1975 ….. 1597 ….. 80.86
Rob Burrow ….. 173 ….. 127 ….. 73.41
Zak Hardaker ….. 66 ….. 40 ….. 60.61
Liam Sutcliffe ….. 55 ….. 33 ….. 60.00
Lee Smith ….. 44 ….. 34 ….. 77.27
David Furner ….. 18 ….. 11 ….. 61.11
Ashley Gibson ….. 12 ….. 9 ….. 75.00
Liam Botham ….. 6 ….. 0 ….. 0.00
Jordan Tansey ….. 5 ….. 3 ….. 60.00
Danny McGuire ….. 3 ….. 0 ….. 0.00
Matt Adamson ….. 1 ….. 0 ….. 0.00
Barrie McDermott ….. 1 ….. 0 ….. 0.00
Gareth Ellis ….. 1 ….. 1 ….. 100.00
Jordan Lilley ….. 1 ….. 1 ….. 100.00
….. ….. ….. ….. ….. ….. …..
….. ….. ….. ….. ….. ….. …..
Total ….. 2361 ….. 1856 ….. 78.61

Re: Goalkicking : Sat Feb 06, 2016 3:24 pm  

If Lilley starts he kicks and if he doesn't then Zak kicks and we hope he improves. But it should be said a club of Leeds stature should be able to obtain a 75-80% ratio kicker

Re: Goalkicking : Sat Feb 06, 2016 3:36 pm  

tvoc wrote:

Just as a matter of interest (and I collect the figures so why not post them) here is a complete list of Leeds kickers used over the period 2004 to (and including) Friday night's game:

Name ….. Attempts ….. Kicked ….. Success %
Kevin Sinfield ….. 1975 ….. 1597 ….. 80.86
Rob Burrow ….. 173 ….. 127 ….. 73.41
Zak Hardaker ….. 66 ….. 40 ….. 60.61
Liam Sutcliffe ….. 55 ….. 33 ….. 60.00
Lee Smith ….. 44 ….. 34 ….. 77.27
David Furner ….. 18 ….. 11 ….. 61.11
Ashley Gibson ….. 12 ….. 9 ….. 75.00
Liam Botham ….. 6 ….. 0 ….. 0.00
Jordan Tansey ….. 5 ….. 3 ….. 60.00
Danny McGuire ….. 3 ….. 0 ….. 0.00
Matt Adamson ….. 1 ….. 0 ….. 0.00
Barrie McDermott ….. 1 ….. 0 ….. 0.00
Gareth Ellis ….. 1 ….. 1 ….. 100.00
Jordan Lilley ….. 1 ….. 1 ….. 100.00
….. ….. ….. ….. ….. ….. …..
….. ….. ….. ….. ….. ….. …..
Total ….. 2361 ….. 1856 ….. 78.61

On that percentage it's a no-brainer. Lilley must be the kicker (Sinfield eat your heart out)

Re: Goalkicking : Sat Feb 06, 2016 3:46 pm  

taxi4stevesmith wrote:

If Lilley starts he kicks and if he doesn't then Zak kicks and we hope he improves. But it should be said a club of Leeds stature should be able to obtain a 75-80% ratio kicker

From where? I suspect relatively few RL kickers exceed 75% and of those that do, how many would you want to see displaying their non-kicking game in a Leeds shirt?

Re: Goalkicking : Sat Feb 06, 2016 4:06 pm  

what stats don't tell you is how many were made in pressure situations when the game is tight, even from mid range like the one Hardaker had the other night.Its ok banging 7/8 over in a 40 point romp but the long term goal had to be to find someone capable in the big situations.Not going to be easy for any of those mentioned and the only way they will get there is time spent practising, and being backed by the club simple as that really.

Re: Goalkicking : Sat Feb 06, 2016 11:16 pm  

Agreed that basic kicking stats would require a deeper analysis but they still mirror my perception of the potential candidates for the Headingley job. Burrow has the best % and has kicked at least one memorable game saving conversion at home V Bradford.

A couple or three ironies on the list, IIRC. 1 - Burrow would have set a Challenge Cup semi-final record had McDermott not been given the easy conversion attempt - which he gloriously missed. 2 - McGuire has never successfully kicked a conversion for Leeds (including a gimme in the 70-0 Wigan game) despite kicking a goal for the full GB Test side. 3 - Botham never kicked a goal for Leeds but once kicked a goal as a Leeds player which cost his parent club a competition point in a draw at Brentford.

All from fading memories so prepared for corrections and/or further embellishment.