Re: JJB to Retire? : Sun Jul 05, 2015 7:23 pm  

nantwichexile wrote:

Depending on who else the club might sign I would agree with this......IF the club recruits another "marquee" antipodean second rower then I do think poor old Achurch's days are numbered.
He has been unfairly used as a prop though; a position for which he is undoubtedly unsuited.

It's not unfair, it's just a natural case of having to do a job for the team. Nearly every player nowadays has to be able to play at least a secondary position if not perhaps even 3 or 4 roles (look at Ablett for example and Watkins who can cover centre, wing and FB). Achurch has done well at times at 2nd row but we've always had better option there in his time here which means he needs to be versatile to help his chances of gametime.

And the thing is given his size and being able to do an offload like Cuthbertson then I'd say Achurch should be more suited to do a job at prop than Keinhorst was to do a job as a 2nd rower. Yet it's been Keinhorst who has taken a new role and done well.

Re: JJB to Retire? : Sun Jul 05, 2015 7:34 pm  

ThePrinter wrote:

It's not unfair, it's just a natural case of having to do a job for the team. Nearly every player nowadays has to be able to play at least a secondary position if not perhaps even 3 or 4 roles (look at Ablett for example and Watkins who can cover centre, wing and FB). Achurch has done well at times at 2nd row but we've always had better option there in his time here which means he needs to be versatile to help his chances of gametime.

And the thing is given his size and being able to do an offload like Cuthbertson then I'd say Achurch should be more suited to do a job at prop than Keinhorst was to do a job as a 2nd rower. Yet it's been Keinhorst who has taken a new role and done well.

...but you wouldn't force Liam Gallagher to be an opera singer: he is patently not cut out for the role. Why persist?

Re: JJB to Retire? : Sun Jul 05, 2015 7:43 pm  

he's not a singer full stop. all hype

Re: JJB to Retire? : Sun Jul 05, 2015 7:51 pm  

While Achurch hasn't covered himself in glory at front row, he's also not disgraced himself. He's just been very average. Some SR's (e.g. Delaney / Hock) do just have a 'run hard, hit the line, leg drive' sort of game, and they are well suited to rotating into the Front Row. Achurch, while a big unit physically, doesn't play that sort of game - he's far better at getting an arm free or making a late pass to put away the man outside - classic second row play.

Just think about it - while we would play JJB at prop if the situation required it, we'd never play Ablett there (despite him being bigger) because his skill set is clearly suited to playing wider out.

Achurch is a very average prop, he's shown (when given minutes) he could be a very good second row, and he should be given the opportunity to show that.

Re: JJB to Retire? : Sun Jul 05, 2015 7:52 pm  

tad rhino wrote:

he's not a singer full stop. all hype

Oh I wouldn't disagree .....I was just trying to think of the most UNLIKLIEST opera singer imaginable !!!! (A bit like Achurch playing prop)

Re: JJB to Retire? : Sun Jul 05, 2015 7:53 pm  

Worlds Apart wrote:

While Achurch hasn't covered himself in glory at front row, he's also not disgraced himself. He's just been very average. Some SR's (e.g. Delaney / Hock) do just have a 'run hard, hit the line, leg drive' sort of game, and they are well suited to rotating into the Front Row. Achurch, while a big unit physically, doesn't play that sort of game - he's far better at getting an arm free or making a late pass to put away the man outside - classic second row play.

Just think about it - while we would play JJB at prop if the situation required it, we'd never play Ablett there (despite him being bigger) because his skill set is clearly suited to playing wider out.

Achurch is a very average prop, he's shown (when given minutes) he could be a very good second row, and he should be given the opportunity to show that.

This!

(Subject to who else the club might have lined up in the second row for 2016)

Re: JJB to Retire? : Sun Jul 05, 2015 7:58 pm  

nantwichexile wrote:

...but you wouldn't force Liam Gallagher to be an opera singer: he is patently not cut out for the role. Why persist?

But that's a poor comparison. That's like pointing out that Peacock wouldn't be any good at playing wing. A 2nd rower with plenty enough size should be able to do a much better job at prop than he has done. All this talk of unsuitable, you make it sound like we've asked Achurch to play FB or wing.

Re: JJB to Retire? : Sun Jul 05, 2015 8:02 pm  

ThePrinter wrote:

But that's a poor comparison. That's like pointing out that Peacock wouldn't be any good at playing wing. A 2nd rower with plenty enough size should be able to do a much better job at prop than he has done. All this talk of unsuitable, you make it sound like we've asked Achurch to play FB or wing.

....okay....what about "flogging a dead horse" then ?

Re: JJB to Retire? : Sun Jul 05, 2015 9:04 pm  

What JJB offers is the mind set of how to win games when things aren't going according to plan and your back is against the wall. For that alone he is work keeping through the transition from the golden generation to the next era.

Re: JJB to Retire? : Sun Jul 05, 2015 9:13 pm  

I think Paul Wellens showed last year at St Helens why it's worthwhile to keep someone who personifies their club through and through even if they've seen better days and have injuries.