Re: Tony Smith : Fri May 22, 2015 7:58 am  

G1 wrote:

How many GF wins did they have before Smith? How many CC wins?

If failing to win a GF is unacceptable then almost every coach every year is unacceptable.

I think the point he is making is a big club, i.e. Leeds, Wigan, Saints, Warrington. Look at the money Warrington have spent since Smith went there. Is a big club not winning a GF in 6 years acceptable? So not really a case of almost every coach.

Re: Tony Smith : Fri May 22, 2015 8:56 am  

My opinion of Smith at Wire is that he could have done better.

He has taken a team that was spending close to full cap and struggling to one which is competing for and winning trophies, though the pots seem to have dried up a bit recently.

Since 2010 (when Leeds gave up their stranglhold on the SL title) the sequence has been

WIG
LEE
LEE
WIG
STH

The SL title has been shared around the big teams, with no-one being dominant. However, Wire have always fallen short in the play-offs.

A former poster may describe them as flattrack bullies, who play open expansive rugby when there is little pressure or opposition is weak, but when the level gets upped, they can't quite find that extra 1% needed to win the GF.

That culture I feel is down to the coach, and is something we did show ourselves in the time he was in charge.

Re: Tony Smith : Fri May 22, 2015 1:04 pm  

And yet Warrington have found themselves very capable of winning big games in the Challenge Cup under Smith.

Re: Tony Smith : Fri May 22, 2015 2:40 pm  

G1 wrote:

Yes, the poster focusing on how many trophies a coach wins is "missing the point".

Yes he is if he reads the opening post and sees what is actually being asked.....it isn't whether or not Smith is a good coach or how many trophies he's won btw.

Re: Tony Smith : Fri May 22, 2015 2:44 pm  

G1 wrote:

How many GF wins did they have before Smith? How many CC wins?

If failing to win a GF is unacceptable then almost every coach every year is unacceptable.

No they aren't because different teams have different expectations. Reality is during Smith's years at Wire there has been only really 4 teams realistically good enough to win the GF (Wire, Leeds, Saints, Wigan)......only one of those teams haven't won it during his spell in charge.

And no Warrington didn't reach any SL GF's before he came, but how many of those seasons did they have a team thought of as good enough to reach Old Trafford?

Re: Tony Smith : Fri May 22, 2015 2:53 pm  

Looking at the teams they had to play to win the trophy they were never given a hard route to the final

2009 (SL pos)
York
Fev
Hull KR (4)
Wigan (6)
Hudds (3)

2010
Fev
Hudds (5)
Bradford (10)
Catalans (14)
Leeds (4)

2012
Keighley
Bradford (9)
Catalans (4)
Hudds (7)
Leeds (5)

Leeds are the only team with any recent cup pedigree that they faced.

Cup wins are good and certainly better than a trophy-less season, but they are not the mark of a top team.

Re: Tony Smith : Fri May 22, 2015 4:05 pm  

So in 2012, they beat four of the best other 8 sides in SL to win the trophy?

I'd say that's a pretty good Cup run, about as difficult as you're going to get given other top teams are likely to draw each other.

Likewise 2009, with three of the other top six sides in the competition.

Re: Tony Smith : Fri May 22, 2015 4:55 pm  

Andy Gilder wrote:

So in 2012, they beat four of the best other 8 sides in SL to win the trophy?

I'd say that's a pretty good Cup run, about as difficult as you're going to get given other top teams are likely to draw each other.

Likewise 2009, with three of the other top six sides in the competition.

Meh in 2012 against Hudds in the semi. Hudds went in having lost 7 of their last 8 league games since Brown announced his departure at the end of the year and they were abysmal at that point in time. Bradford at home, you'd fancy any of the big 4 to win that comfortably.

They beat Wigan in 2009, but that was the Brian Noble Wigan. Not the Maguire/Wane Wigan, big difference.

Re: Tony Smith : Sun May 24, 2015 11:55 pm  

I saw him at Slam Dunk music festival in Leeds yesterday, which might provide further ammunition to some, depending on your views of him. Either that, or he has a Yorkshire-based double who is also sporting a year-round tan...

Re: Tony Smith : Mon May 25, 2015 1:09 pm  

ThePrinter wrote:

Yes he is if he reads the opening post and sees what is actually being asked.....it isn't whether or not Smith is a good coach or how many trophies he's won btw.

..and yet on the previous page there is one of your usual long winded posts that is purely dedicated to whether Smith is a good coach or not that doesn't deal with the original question.

Threads drift, often due to your contribution.

Deal with it.