Re: Tony Smith : Mon May 25, 2015 1:16 pm  

G1 wrote:

..and yet on the previous page there is one of your usual long winded posts that is purely dedicated to whether Smith is a good coach or not that doesn't deal with the original question.

Threads drift, often due to your contribution.

Deal with it.

Really? Show us what post I made originally before you chipped in with your defence of Smith that wasn't me talking about squad building/make-up issues regarding Smirh?

Re: Tony Smith : Mon May 25, 2015 8:06 pm  

What exactly was I defending Smith against? I made a post lauding his abilities as a coach. You responded with the post below. Therefore you were as guilty as I of thread drift. You then waffle on complaining about thread drift.

ThePrinter wrote:

Reality is though, 6 seasons in charge at Warrington and no GF win to show for the teams they assembled is a disappointing return no matter how you look at it. If it wasn't Smith at Warrington and another coach so their was no emotional connection to his time at Leeds would you say no GF win was acceptable.....I doubt it.

At Leeds, yes the first year and a half were excellent at a time both Saints and Wigan had issues. Once Saints got their act together we fell massively behind them but managed to do them on one night in his last game.

Yes he's won trophies but he had teams that could do that, but those teams also lost a fair few, make a list of those....

Leeds

CCF - 2005
GF - 2005
CCsf - 2006 against a inexperienced in big games Hudds
Playoffs 2006 - similar vs Wire

Warrington

playoffs - 2011
Gf - 2012
Gf - 2013
CCsf - 2013 against an average Hull side
CCsf - 2014 against leeds could barely complete a set in the first half.

Considering that Wire's CC runs weren't the most toughest along the way then some context should be taken there. They beat Leeds twice in the final, but hell even Hull beat us in a final and we had to carefully tip-toe past Castleford to win it. Their other win against big game failure Huddersfield.

For the teams he had under his control he hasn't won as much as he should have done by a long chalk.

To go from LLS in 2011 with scoring over a thousand points to a very average W/L record in 2015 and a real fight to make the top 4 on their hands.....that's real backwards progress and one that wouldn't be tolerated by people on this board if it happened at Leeds.

Re: Tony Smith : Mon May 25, 2015 8:27 pm  

G1 wrote:

What exactly was I defending Smith against? I made a post lauding his abilities as a coach. You responded with the post below. Therefore you were as guilty as I of thread drift. You then waffle on complaining about thread drift.

Why don't you quote my first post of the thread? You know the one that was actually about the issue being discussed about squad development and what not? The one you could only reply to with a "......but, but, but......look at his trophies, he's great"

Then I offered the reply you just posted above in response to you stubborn refusal to comment on the issue being discussed. It's noted that after several post you've yet to be able to offer any support to Smith in terms of squad development even though that's the topic we were trying to discuss until you tried derailing with "but he's won X amount of titles"

Re: Tony Smith : Wed May 27, 2015 11:39 am  

I went on thread drift. So did you.

I'll quote what I won't and post what I want. You don't have to reply but I certainly don't have to stick to whatever topic or content you want to discuss.

In terms of squad development Smith has developed several squads over the years that have gone on to win trophies. That's an important development.

[Bullseye]

Re: Tony Smith : Wed May 27, 2015 12:03 pm  

I think it’s hard to compare the Smith era at Leeds with that at Wire since Smith inherited a once in a generation group of young players at Leeds in the likes of Sinfield/McGuire/Burrow etc. The squad at Warrington wasn’t at the same level when he arrived there and it takes years for a youth system to bear fruit – even then getting 6 or 7 top players through in one go is extremely rare.

He’s had to work with existing players at Warrington and buy others. That’s always going to have mixed results. Considering his success in the cup and generally making Warrington much better than under Cullen he’s done a good job.

Re: Tony Smith : Wed May 27, 2015 12:34 pm  

Bullseye wrote:

I think it’s hard to compare the Smith era at Leeds with that at Wire since Smith inherited a once in a generation group of young players at Leeds in the likes of Sinfield/McGuire/Burrow etc. The squad at Warrington wasn’t at the same level when he arrived there and it takes years for a youth system to bear fruit – even then getting 6 or 7 top players through in one go is extremely rare.

He’s had to work with existing players at Warrington and buy others. That’s always going to have mixed results. Considering his success in the cup and generally making Warrington much better than under Cullen he’s done a good job.

Whilst I agree in general, despite beating Leeds twice, I think they have underperformed in their other games where they have 6 wins and 7 losses and their +66 points difference is boosted by an 80-0 win against Wakefield.

Re: Tony Smith : Wed May 27, 2015 12:40 pm  

Warrington are fifth, with three fewer wins than Leeds. When the top eight format starts Leeds will be playing them again and perhaps in the playoffs and or the cup.

I'm more worried about Smith's game plan against us this year than I am his other inconsistent results. They are still likely to have a big say in where the silver wear goes.,

Re: Tony Smith : Wed May 27, 2015 1:39 pm  

in 4 years McDermott has won two grand finals and a challenge cup is he the better coach?

Re: Tony Smith : Wed May 27, 2015 1:58 pm  

doc-rhino wrote:

in 4 years McDermott has won two grand finals and a challenge cup is he the better coach?

Or did he step into a group of players with plenty of talent and a winning mentality installed by previous coaches? Something Smith certainly didn't inherit at Warrington.

Re: Tony Smith : Wed May 27, 2015 2:22 pm  

I have not always been happy with smith or McDermott with chunks of performances. Have we been greater than the sum of our parts in winning or underperformed too often and lacked style.

What is fact is that smith with a mainly young side in 2004 won the hub cap with style and the grand final.

Powell MAY have done it but SMITH did.

After the 80s and early 90s cannot be denied with differing ways Graham Murray (R.i.p) and Smith brought something extra to the table.

Slight thread drift whoever had the Hetherington out banner?