Re: Would We : Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:55 pm  

Andy Gilder wrote:

Might have to agree to disagree here, but the stagnation of players starts and ends with the player IMO.

The "incentive" for the player to continually improve their game should be simple professional pride and what they can contribute to the team if they get better. Also if they're not happy at their current club, surely becoming a better player helps them to get a move elsewhere, whether that's another SL club, NRL or Union.

I'll give you Jamie Foster as an example. With work on the defensive side of his game, Jamie Foster has enough skill to be playing in SL. Instead, he's playing in some tinpot Union side in Hull and tweeting pictures of his brand new flash Mercedes. Did he want to do the hard work it would have taken to make a success of his rugby league career? On the face of it, doesn't look that way.

But if a player isn't unhappy at their current club, again where is the incentive to get better if they are already picked each week regardless?

I don't disagree with you on professional pride. But if clubs are picking sides regardless of form, I don't see the kick for the players to improve.

Pick on form and I am sure you will see a different ethic from players.

Re: Would We : Mon Feb 23, 2015 4:07 pm  

The entire problem, be it players not pushing themselves enough or clubs continuing to pick players regardless of form, comes from a lack of competition.

If there was another member of the squad of sufficient quality to step in when a top player loses form then the club would be more likely to make the change and the player would be more likely to push himself to improve.

Unfortunately, most squad players in SL aren't of good enough quality to provide this competition. They're there to cover injuries not push a first 13 player out of his place.

Re: Would We : Mon Feb 23, 2015 4:10 pm  

thebloodbath wrote:

Think Andy has a great point.

As soon as Ryan Atkins and Leroy Cudjoe got their hands on an England shirt their progression stopped. Think they're both in reverse currently as well.

I'm on the Ryan Atkins diet. Whatever you eat, you put weight on because you can't pass anything.

[Ex-Swarcliffe Rhino]

Re: Would We : Mon Feb 23, 2015 5:33 pm  

Atkins is the definition of the term "Flat Track Bully"

Great when your on top.
Rubbish when you need him to step up.

Re: Would We : Mon Feb 23, 2015 5:54 pm  

The difference between Atkins and a top class Centre is the letter 'W'.

Re: Would We : Mon Feb 23, 2015 7:04 pm  

gulfcoast_highwayman wrote:

The difference between Atkins and a top class Centre is the letter 'W'.

Who does Anker play for?

Re: Would We : Mon Feb 23, 2015 10:04 pm  

Andy Gilder wrote:

Because it's enough to get by, and there isn't someone with an infinitely better passing game nipping at his heels.

Arguably, the likes of Burrow for example are still playing the same game with the same flaws they had ten years ago. It's this player stagnation and the lack of challenges that holds the game back over here.

I don't think its a lack of will, but a lack of necessity. Burrow can, and has, won us games doing what he does. A player like him can win 6 grand finals, never finish out of the play offs, win the cc appear in multiple finals being the player he is. Leeds can win most games comfortably with burrow doing little more than quick breaks from dummy half, slow distribution doesn't mean you lose, an imperfect kicking game isn't fatal etc etc.

Re: Would We : Mon Feb 23, 2015 10:31 pm  

SmokeyTA wrote:

I don't think its a lack of will, but a lack of necessity. Burrow can, and has, won us games doing what he does. A player like him can win 6 grand finals, never finish out of the play offs, win the cc appear in multiple finals being the player he is. Leeds can win most games comfortably with burrow doing little more than quick breaks from dummy half, slow distribution doesn't mean you lose, an imperfect kicking game isn't fatal etc etc.

Should it need to be a matter of will? Shouldn't a player, at whatever stage of their career, always looking to be adding something extra to their game?

Re: Would We : Tue Feb 24, 2015 12:22 am  

One thing that really does stand out, both in these games and when England play is the gap in error rate is enormous. Sl sides far too often lose the ball in the tackle or make rubbish passes mand aimless kicks. Aus/NZ and NRL sides do make errors, but far fewer absolute howlers in bad parts of the field. SL allows such mistakes because they simply aren't punished as harshly as they are in the NRL. They also don't necessarily show up in the stats, but its as clear as day to anybody watching.

Its interesting that the lack of size/strength in the outside backs is a problem for some SL teams. Souths themselves had virtually the same pack last year as 2013, but they replaced 2-5 with bigger, stronger players and it made a huge difference both in attack and defence. The days of small outside backs are probably long gone.

Re: Would We : Tue Feb 24, 2015 1:09 am  

BrisbaneRhino wrote:

One thing that really does stand out, both in these games and when England play is the gap in error rate is enormous. Sl sides far too often lose the ball in the tackle or make rubbish passes mand aimless kicks. Aus/NZ and NRL sides do make errors, but far fewer absolute howlers in bad parts of the field. SL allows such mistakes because they simply aren't punished as harshly as they are in the NRL. They also don't necessarily show up in the stats, but its as clear as day to anybody watching.

Its interesting that the lack of size/strength in the outside backs is a problem for some SL teams. Souths themselves had virtually the same pack last year as 2013, but they replaced 2-5 with bigger, stronger players and it made a huge difference both in attack and defence. The days of small outside backs are probably long gone.

I agree there were far too many basic errors and spilled ball across the 3 games which ultimately cost the SL side, especially Wire and Wigan in the tight games. Some of the mistakes this weekend though were in the diabolical category, i mean Joe Burgess must have coughed the ball up at least 3 times in his own 25, and these really were not brought about because of opposition pressure, just really bad drops you would expect to make once every few games. I can't recall seeing any of that during his breakthrough year.Then you had Simms for the wire, he spilled at least a couple of times in his own half, 1 leading to a try and he is an NRL veteran. Just one of those things i guess but it shows you can't afford to turn ball over against top sides or they will kill you.

Regarding the three quarters, The game is going the way of Union in this regard, big seems to be the way but i do think there is still a place for the smaller, quick and elusive guys just not a full back line of them.Saints three quarters, who are in the small category, made no headway against there far bigger counter parts. And i thought Josh Dugan who is a big unit for a FB made a lot of good yards bringing the ball back on friday.