Re: Aiton out for 12 weeks : Mon Apr 14, 2014 8:17 am  

the big problem with burrow at hooker is his passing from the floor is slow and sometimes sloppy. with aiton its crisp and gets wider quicker.

Re: Aiton out for 12 weeks : Mon Apr 14, 2014 8:19 am  

Juan Cornetto wrote:

Well Burrow has been a key man and arguably MOM in the last two games - which he wouldn't have been had he had sitting on the bench!

Perhaps he wouldn't but you can't say for certain unless it's against the rules to award a man of the match to someone who starts on the bench - remind everyone where the player who won the Harry Sunderland in 2011 started that game.

Re: Aiton out for 12 weeks : Mon Apr 14, 2014 9:19 am  

tad rhino wrote:

the big problem with burrow at hooker is his passing from the floor is slow and sometimes sloppy. with aiton its crisp and gets wider quicker.

You can get away with Burrow at hooker against Wakie. In last fortnight he was afforded plenty of time, due to the benefit of a pack being easily on the front foot and he still didn't make most of the space overall and it isn't pretty to watch. Yes he can dart and run across the line, but he's lacking from a hooking distribution skillset. That's not his fault, he is a scrum half afterall. Think he would be alot happier back at seven too.

Re: Aiton out for 12 weeks : Mon Apr 14, 2014 9:40 am  

tad rhino wrote:

the big problem with burrow at hooker is his passing from the floor is slow and sometimes sloppy. with aiton its crisp and gets wider quicker.

Aiton has played well and is an asset to the club and yes his floor pass is better and he makes more tackles. However in all other aspects of the game Burrow is superior. Burrow makes far more dummy runs, carries, metres, tackle busts and clean breaks. Burrow is a proven try scorer and match winner with a kicking game. Burrow does not fit in with some peoples idea of the archetype hooker but his unque individual skills as one of the best attackers in SL make him able to make a success in this role.

In truth Burrow is not that bad at acting half back (2nd choice for England) and as first choice hooker for the leading metre making side last year last year and the current metre leader so far this year his alleged lack of a floor pass has not prevented him from getting good metres out of our forwards and also giving them an all important rest (and the opposition forwards a nightmare) with his many runs from dummy half. This last point is totally overlooked by his detractors.

I have said many time that I would prefer Burrow at 7 but since Buderus left he has stepped up to be our first choice 9 and rarely lets the team down. Some say he should be on the bench but IMO that would be a tragic waste of attacking talent. Maybe in the future but not now because of all our key core players over the last 10 years Burrow is the one that has not lost his speed or had his ability diminished. IMO if fit he should remain on the field for the full 80 as usually he is as full of running in the last minute as in the first.

When Aiton is fit again I would prefer Burrow at 7 as we need his speed in the halfbacks. To give Aiton a break Burrow or Sinfield can cover the 9 spot for 10/15 minutes. So I would not go with a replacement hooker on the bench.

Re: Aiton out for 12 weeks : Mon Apr 14, 2014 9:46 am  

fair points JC. i prefer him at 7 too but he makes a good fist of playing hooker

Re: Aiton out for 12 weeks : Mon Apr 14, 2014 9:49 am  

tvoc wrote:

Perhaps he wouldn't but you can't say for certain unless it's against the rules to award a man of the match to someone who starts on the bench - remind everyone where the player who won the Harry Sunderland in 2011 started that game.

Irrelevant comment.

My point was he was MOM or close to it in the last 2 games playing the full 80 minutes which few so called hookers can do. In the previous game against Saints he was Leeds's best attacker and at 9 had distributed our forwards to dominate metres and field position again playing the full 80 - remind everyone who was our first choice hooker in 2011 and why he started. We are now talking about 2014 with Aiton out for 3 months.

Our most consistent, fastest attacker should be on the field for the full 80 unless rested or injured

Re: Aiton out for 12 weeks : Mon Apr 14, 2014 9:58 am  

thebloodbath wrote:

You can get away with Burrow at hooker against Wakie. In last fortnight he was afforded plenty of time, due to the benefit of a pack being easily on the front foot and he still didn't make most of the space overall and it isn't pretty to watch. Yes he can dart and run across the line, but he's lacking from a hooking distribution skillset. That's not his fault, he is a scrum half afterall. Think he would be alot happier back at seven too.

Not Burrow's fault Wakefield were poor. He did enough against Saints (SL leaders with a superb defence) in the distribution skillset to put Leeds in the right field position to win the game. Look at the metres Leeds made last year and this season. That wouldn't be if Burrow was as bad at 9 as you suggest. He more than makes up for the odd poor floor pass by the other skillsets that I have outlined above.

Re: Aiton out for 12 weeks : Mon Apr 14, 2014 10:00 am  

tad rhino wrote:

fair points JC. i prefer him at 7 too but he makes a good fist of playing hooker

It's not a fair point in any context to measure an hooker on number of carries or dummy half runs he makes. Quite frankly it is a weak point to make, as JC has been told numerous times before.

Hookers are constantly taking the ball from dummy half, as it is their job, so number of carries is determined by how many play the balls the team has. As for dummy half runs, again a complete irrelevant stat unless it is determined by meters gained. You could have your hooker making 40 10 metre runs in a game, making 400 metres in total, but another hooker could put 10 perfectly timed unpredicted passes to a runner, putting him through a gap and contributing to more than 400 metres per game.

Re: Aiton out for 12 weeks : Mon Apr 14, 2014 10:50 am  

Juan Cornetto wrote:

Irrelevant comment.

Not at all as it was in response to this -

Juan Cornetto wrote:

Well Burrow has been a key man and arguably MOM in the last two games - which he wouldn't have been had he had sitting on the bench!

Using Burrow from the bench has been a successful tactic in the past and present and would probably be in the future. The only way using a dynamic Burrow from the bench would not influence the game is if he is kept there for the full eighty in a coach thinking outside the box type nonsensical ploy.

Re: Aiton out for 12 weeks : Mon Apr 14, 2014 11:23 am  

Juan Cornetto wrote:

Look at the metres Leeds made last year and this season. That wouldn't be if Burrow was as bad at 9 as you suggest.

Having one of the better SL back threes on kick returns (Hardaker, Jones-Bishop, Hall - 2013 and Hardaker, Briscoe, Hall - 2014) and a freakish prop (Peacock) making a notable contribution in the overall figures with limited input from the acting half skews that particular stat.