Tactics : Tue Aug 28, 2012 2:36 pm  

Why did we abandon the tactics of kicking on the 3rd tackle, which worked so well against Wigan in the semi? We were offering no threat whatsoever on the sets coming out of our own half. Waiting for their back 3 to get set and then kicking it down their throats was not a great idea. We all know that Hodgson doesn't like bringing it out on his own either (thanks Kylie).

I know Ward and Sinfield is a new halfback combination, but we literally put no plays on at all. It was hope for a quick PTB from Peacock or JJB and rush from dummy half. You will not break down the better teams without moving the ball.

Re: Tactics : Tue Aug 28, 2012 2:43 pm  

I thought that again came largely down to our collisions in the middle. Losing those meant a slow PTB. That meant the Warrington defence was able to set and apply more pressure to our kicker, exasperated by their really being only Sinfield to kick. If you look at the kicks, you'll notice Sinfield typically had to take a look at the defence as the ball was being played and then catch and kick. Warrington's kickers typically had time to take a second look after catching the pass before kicking. That's why they were able to find space and we often couldn't.

So much comes down to collisions, and controlling the tackle and PTB.

Re: Tactics : Tue Aug 28, 2012 2:46 pm  

I agree with what you're saying Richie, I just thought that Kev in particular could have taken a bit more control, regardless of the speed of the play the ball.

Re: Tactics : Tue Aug 28, 2012 2:51 pm  

I think Sinfield and Co were expecting foul wet weather throughout the contest given the forecast, along with a possible war of attrition where points are at a premium. Hence when the downpour occurred, Sinfield reverted to wet weather Grand Final mode kicking on 3rd/4th tackles in the hope of pegging Warrington back and choking the life out of the game and the opposition. Unfortunately, the wet weather didn't persist and the game plan ended up being flushed down the Wembley drains.

Anyone else smell those drains on Saturday? Poooooh!

Re: Tactics : Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:09 pm  

Richie wrote:

I thought that again came largely down to our collisions in the middle. Losing those meant a slow PTB. That meant the Warrington defence was able to set and apply more pressure to our kicker, exasperated by their really being only Sinfield to kick. If you look at the kicks, you'll notice Sinfield typically had to take a look at the defence as the ball was being played and then catch and kick. Warrington's kickers typically had time to take a second look after catching the pass before kicking. That's why they were able to find space and we often couldn't.

So much comes down to collisions, and controlling the tackle and PTB.

Couldnt agree more - This is something that we have been relatively poor at for a while. Our 'wrestle' technique, and control of the speed of the play the ball is a long way behind Wigan and Warrington, and probably even Huddersfield, Saints and Catalans.

I also thought our lack of a structured attack hampered our chances. Whenever we play Wigan or Warrington - If they start a set in our half, I know they are going to test our defence. However, with us, the closer we get to the opposition try line, it sometimes feels the less likely we are to break the defence down.

Generally, on our day, I think we are strong in most areas, but weaknesses in these 2 fundemental areas are probably the difference between us and the likes of Wigan and Warrington. In being stronger in these 2 areas, Wigan and Warrington are able to perform better on a more consistent basis. And unfortunately, because of this, their best performances are currently better than our best performances.

Re: Tactics : Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:32 pm  

Or in other words ..... coaching.

Re: Tactics : Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:39 pm  

tvoc wrote:

Or in other words ..... coaching.

Yeah - I didnt simply want to put that though. I do wonder what 'coaching' is actually happening at the moment though. I dont really see anything different in how we play now, to how we played under Bluey (not exactly known as a great tactitian). However, I do see a massive difference in our style and approach to the years under Smith and Powell. McDermott certainly doesnt appear to have stamped his 'style' on the team.

Maybe this is due to the core number of players who have remained with the team right through from the Powell/Smith eras to the current team.

Re: Tactics : Tue Aug 28, 2012 5:02 pm  

The hodge isnt as bad bringing the ball out, dont know why you think he doesnt like it ?

Kev was targeted and particularly on the fith so kicking early would have worked, iirc he did kick early a few times b4 the rain but on the other hand you cannot go 80 min kicking early, its about going early when the time is right or as part of a set play.

I recon that if you were expecting rain and traind for that then thats a massive balls up, surely you should be preparing to play the game not the weather? Our game didnt change because of the rain. Also expecting to out muscle us was another faux par negate our pack and your chances would have increased dramatically.

Re: Tactics : Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:15 pm  

Matt23 wrote:

Why did we abandon the tactics of kicking on the 3rd tackle, which worked so well against Wigan in the semi?

I think the plan V Wigan on exit sets was to kick after the fourth rather than after the third (I'd have to check to be sure) and I think Leeds did a bit of that at Wembley also although again I'd have to check but please don't make me.

Leeds got off to a flyer on the scoreboard V Wigan because Tomkins isn't the best under a high bomb if you hit the mark spot on as Sinfield did for Hall's first, on the next Leeds set Tomkins let a harmless looking kick dribble into touch for a 40:20 - Jones-Bishop try in the attacking set that followed and I think it was two sets later when Charnley unexpectedly spilled a kick return which ened with Hardaker scoring after a forward pass from I think Sinfield to Peacock was missed by Thaler and his officials.

I imagine Wigan couldn't believe how badly they'd handled the opening and I bet Leeds were pretty shocked too on how efficiently they'd made them pay for their misakes.

A triumph of tactics or a shocking opening by Wigan? Warrington were nowhere near as generous at Wembley although I suspect Leeds were attempting to replicate the 4th tackle kicks on exit sets. Somebody check for me.

Re: Tactics : Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:14 pm  

The Warrington tactics were obvious from the start when they pressurised Sir Kev on every kick - even when the ball had gone / Abblett punched in the face - they were fired up This compares to our total of lack of pressure on Briers, who should have been taken out in the same manner. If you see the opposition punch one of your players smack in the face, & only a penalty given, you don"t have to be a brain surgeon to realise that you can get stuck into the opposition - where were our enforcers ?
Other questions -
- why when we have a winger over 6 feet ( BJB ) against Riley do we never once put a kick on that wing ?
- why against a team with a stronger pack do you have a bench with only 2 big forwards + Lunt _ the kid ?
- why are our wrestling / holding down techniques so inferior to the other top teams
- why cant the coaching staff realise that when you lose the best tackling hooker that I have seen ( been watching Leeds for over 40 years ) & replace him with a second rater from Huddersfiled or McShane, who had been tried & failed under 2 previous coaches , that it is not going to work ?

- need I go on !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!