Re: Random 'rules of the game' question : Thu Jan 27, 2011 2:29 pm  

kirkstaller wrote:

Ask Iestyn Harris, he hit it in 2007.

Subtle... I like it

Re: Random 'rules of the game' question : Thu Jan 27, 2011 2:30 pm  

Clearwing wrote:

True of Silverwood, less so of Ganson. I reckon you'd be in with a fair shout of hitting him with the kick.

More to do with his size than his tendency to try and control the ruck around the PTB

Re: Random 'rules of the game' question : Thu Jan 27, 2011 2:32 pm  

Harrigan wrote:

:)

Subtle... I like it

I've only just got that! Went well over my head at the time.

Re: Random 'rules of the game' question : Thu Jan 27, 2011 5:14 pm  

these sort of questions will have been asked on refereeing courses and answers found, i know when i did my football refs course similar improbable questions were asked and the course leaders always had an answer and an explanation as to why

my guess would be that its classed as out of play on the full so a penalty from where the ball was kicked

Re: Random 'rules of the game' question : Thu Jan 27, 2011 5:46 pm  

A good one from our refs' meeting last night.

Blue team are attacking and are 5 meters away from the try line. A player from Blue plays the ball and the dummy half heels the ball back and a player behind the dummy half picks the ball up and score a try.

The consensus was the try should be awarded as there is no requirement for the dummy half to pick up the ball.

The team tried this move again though and instead of it going to plan, the dummy half placed his hand on the ball to stop it after it had been played, and subsequently heeled it back with his own foot. Again, a player behind the dummy half picks the ball up and goes in to score the try.

There were 3 ways that we all interpreted it:

a) Play on and award the try - those argued that no knock-on has occurred as the ball did not move forward off the DH's hand.

b) Knock on

c) Penalty to the defending team as the DH has played the ball when not tackled. The motion of putting your hand on the ball and rolling it back (or not as is usually the case) with your foot is only done in a play the ball situation.

I think in a game situation (especially at amateur level) where a quick decision is needed, common sense would lead you to award a knock on and scrum to the defence. To the letter of the law though - I see this as an incorrect play the ball as the DH has played the ball when not tackled. In a professional environment, I'd expect to see a penalty being awarded for this.

Thoughts?

Re: Random 'rules of the game' question : Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:04 pm  

southyorksdave wrote:

these sort of questions will have been asked on refereeing courses and answers found, i know when i did my football refs course similar improbable questions were asked and the course leaders always had an answer and an explanation as to why

my guess would be that its classed as out of play on the full so a penalty from where the ball was kicked

But the posts aren't out of play and a penalty would be rather harsh

mirfieldrhino wrote:

A good one from our refs' meeting last night.

Blue team are attacking and are 5 meters away from the try line. A player from Blue plays the ball and the dummy half heels the ball back and a player behind the dummy half picks the ball up and score a try.

The consensus was the try should be awarded as there is no requirement for the dummy half to pick up the ball.

The team tried this move again though and instead of it going to plan, the dummy half placed his hand on the ball to stop it after it had been played, and subsequently heeled it back with his own foot. Again, a player behind the dummy half picks the ball up and goes in to score the try.

There were 3 ways that we all interpreted it:

a) Play on and award the try - those argued that no knock-on has occurred as the ball did not move forward off the DH's hand.

b) Knock on

c) Penalty to the defending team as the DH has played the ball when not tackled. The motion of putting your hand on the ball and rolling it back (or not as is usually the case) with your foot is only done in a play the ball situation.

I think in a game situation (especially at amateur level) where a quick decision is needed, common sense would lead you to award a knock on and scrum to the defence. To the letter of the law though - I see this as an incorrect play the ball as the DH has played the ball when not tackled. In a professional environment, I'd expect to see a penalty being awarded for this.

Thoughts?

Personally I would have gone for awarding the try. It's not a knock on unless it is propelled forwards, and as I understand it a play the ball requires the ball to be brought off the ground in the act of the play the ball. So the dummy half could argue that it obviously wasn't a play the ball and was simply rolling the ball backwards.

Re: Random 'rules of the game' question : Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:08 pm  

southyorksdave wrote:

these sort of questions will have been asked on refereeing courses and answers found, i know when i did my football refs course similar improbable questions were asked and the course leaders always had an answer and an explanation as to why

my guess would be that its classed as out of play on the full so a penalty from where the ball was kicked

No, really... im pretty certain what I said on page 1 covers this

Harrigan wrote:

I think the odds of this happening are in the millions because the posts are circular so it'd take some force for it to ever happen but let's say for instance it did I'd have to give a scrum 10m out to the attacking team. The same as if the ball strikes me on the 5th tackle. If an outside influence effects play then the attacking team gets the ball back via a scrum. No matter what tackle it is.

Re: Random 'rules of the game' question : Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:15 pm  

mirfieldrhino wrote:

A good one from our refs' meeting last night.

Blue team are attacking and are 5 meters away from the try line. A player from Blue plays the ball and the dummy half heels the ball back and a player behind the dummy half picks the ball up and score a try.

The consensus was the try should be awarded as there is no requirement for the dummy half to pick up the ball.

The team tried this move again though and instead of it going to plan, the dummy half placed his hand on the ball to stop it after it had been played, and subsequently heeled it back with his own foot. Again, a player behind the dummy half picks the ball up and goes in to score the try.

There were 3 ways that we all interpreted it:

a) Play on and award the try - those argued that no knock-on has occurred as the ball did not move forward off the DH's hand.

b) Knock on

c) Penalty to the defending team as the DH has played the ball when not tackled. The motion of putting your hand on the ball and rolling it back (or not as is usually the case) with your foot is only done in a play the ball situation.

I think in a game situation (especially at amateur level) where a quick decision is needed, common sense would lead you to award a knock on and scrum to the defence. To the letter of the law though - I see this as an incorrect play the ball as the DH has played the ball when not tackled. In a professional environment, I'd expect to see a penalty being awarded for this.

Thoughts?

Hmm... as he hasnt really "placed" the ball on the floor, merely stopped it with his hands, I would blow for a knock on as he has touched the ball and then let go. Its a bit like losing control of the ball as you put it on the floor before you play it. That would be a knock on too.

Re: Random 'rules of the game' question : Thu Jan 27, 2011 7:53 pm  

mirfieldrhino wrote:

The team tried this move again though and instead of it going to plan, the dummy half placed his hand on the ball to stop it after it had been played, and subsequently heeled it back with his own foot. Again, a player behind the dummy half picks the ball up and goes in to score the try.

There were 3 ways that we all interpreted it:

If it looks like a knock on, walks like a knock on and talks like a knock on then for me it's

b) Knock on

Re: Random 'rules of the game' question : Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:23 pm  

Is this a good thread???