Re: Schoey's England 17 : Thu Oct 23, 2014 3:15 pm  

wertyuio wrote:

Hardaker misses out as Smith and Widdop is probably best half back pairing .

I'll be pleasantly surprised if they see out all 3 games.

Re: Schoey's England 17 : Thu Oct 23, 2014 6:22 pm  

tigertot wrote:

wertyuio wrote:

Hardaker misses out as Smith and Widdop is probably best half back pairing .

I'll be pleasantly surprised if they see out all 3 games.

When was the last time we played a series with a recognised 6 and 7 playing together the whole time? If we can limit errors we should have a good chance. We've got the best props, Smith is good at kicking with ball in hand and organisation, Widdop and Tomkins should offer most of the creativity and we definitely have players who can finish.

Re: Schoey's England 17 : Thu Oct 23, 2014 6:42 pm  

Major Tom wrote:

When was the last time we played a series with a recognised 6 and 7 playing together the whole time? If we can limit errors we should have a good chance. We've got the best props, Smith is good at kicking with ball in hand and organisation, Widdop and Tomkins should offer most of the creativity and we definitely have players who can finish.

So you obviously reckon that we will make the final then or perhaps even win the comp?
Sadly i don't share your optimism and think that we will probably only win one game against Samoa and that will be a close one at that IMO

I can also see a couple of hidings on the cards against the understrength Kiwis and Australia sides

Re: Schoey's England 17 : Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:02 pm  

Major Tom wrote:

When was the last time we played a series with a recognised 6 and 7 playing together the whole time? If we can limit errors we should have a good chance. We've got the best props, Smith is good at kicking with ball in hand and organisation, Widdop and Tomkins should offer most of the creativity and we definitely have players who can finish.

Best make the most of it won't have the best props for the next tournament if rummors are true George is wanted by Gloucester RU 1m fee memtioned

Re: Schoey's England 17 : Fri Oct 24, 2014 7:05 am  

Major Tom wrote:

When was the last time we played a series with a recognised 6 and 7 playing together the whole time? If we can limit errors we should have a good chance. We've got the best props, Smith is good at kicking with ball in hand and organisation, Widdop and Tomkins should offer most of the creativity and we definitely have players who can finish.

Im not convinced Smith will be up to the job at international level. This is not a dig because he plays for Wigan blah blah.. and i hope to be proved wrong in the coming weeks, but my current personal opinion is that he is a good SL player but that status is not good enough to get by against the very best, particularly in such a key position.Far better Scrum Halfs than Smith have been found wanting at this level for GB/England. Edwards and Long for example, 2 of the best ever at domestic level, had very little joy.

Im of the view that we should go Hardaker Full Back and Widdop/Tomkins at Halves and that will surely be looked at if the Smith/ Widdop combo fails.Saying all that, Smith's probably been up there as the best S/H in our comp. this year so i can see why he has been given the opportunity to prove himself, lets hope he takes it.

Re: Schoey's England 17 : Fri Oct 24, 2014 7:19 am  

Major Tom wrote:

When was the last time we played a series with a recognised 6 and 7 playing together the whole time? If we can limit errors we should have a good chance. We've got the best props, Smith is good at kicking with ball in hand and organisation, Widdop and Tomkins should offer most of the creativity and we definitely have players who can finish.

Good at kicking & organising is an excuse for mediocrity. This is the same Smith who has been regularly slagged off on the Wigan board, who might have the time & field position in SL. I hope he proves me wrong.

Re: Schoey's England 17 : Fri Oct 24, 2014 8:56 am  

Ferdy wrote:

Best make the most of it won't have the best props for the next tournament if rummors are true George is wanted by Gloucester RU 1m fee memtioned

Well, that would be a huge waste of £1M. George Burgess has no obvious position on an RU pitch.

Re: Schoey's England 17 : Fri Oct 24, 2014 11:26 am  

Biff Tannen wrote:

Im not convinced Smith will be up to the job at international level. This is not a dig because he plays for Wigan blah blah.. and i hope to be proved wrong in the coming weeks, but my current personal opinion is that he is a good SL player but that status is not good enough to get by against the very best, particularly in such a key position.Far better Scrum Halfs than Smith have been found wanting at this level for GB/England. Edwards and Long for example, 2 of the best ever at domestic level, had very little joy.

Im of the view that we should go Hardaker Full Back and Widdop/Tomkins at Halves and that will surely be looked at if the Smith/ Widdop combo fails.Saying all that, Smith's probably been up there as the best S/H in our comp. this year so i can see why he has been given the opportunity to prove himself, lets hope he takes it.

I definitely understand and have similar reservations regarding Smith but he does bring something I don't think anyone else does with his kicking. For the other poster to say being good at kicking and organisation are bywords for mediocrity is overly simplistic and devalues the importance of a good kicking game.

Sinfield got blamed for our loss to NZ last year. For me his crime wasn't that he missed the tackle it's that for the last 5-10 minutes he failed to slow the game down and get the ball out of play. This game sense is the sort of thing Smith has shown as Wigan.

I'm not saying he's Andrew Johns, he is limited but he has virtues that could make the team better than it has been. We have Graham, Widdop, Tomkins and presumably O'Loughlin who are all play makers, I think Smith will be there to facilitate them.

I'm not sure we'll make or win the final, I've seen far too much international Rugby League to ever think that. I do think this is the best chance to do well in the southern hemisphere for a long time. We've got a selection pretty similar to last year, a lot of the team already play in Aus/NZ, players aren't out of position and both Aus and NZ look weaker than they have done for a while. I'd love to see a game where we look like we might actually beat Australia.

Yours positively,

Tom

Re: Schoey's England 17 : Fri Oct 24, 2014 1:00 pm  

El Diablo wrote:

Well, that would be a huge waste of £1M. George Burgess has no obvious position on an RU pitch.

I am struggling there as well. Andrew Sheridan was a similar build and was a great prop while his back/ankles etc were functional, but he would have been learning the techniques and developing the right muscles for that position since he was a kid. Gloucester's pack are a pile of $h!te at the moment, they could probabaly spend the money better within Union.

Re: Schoey's England 17 : Fri Oct 24, 2014 1:10 pm  

Major Tom wrote:

I definitely understand and have similar reservations regarding Smith but he does bring something I don't think anyone else does with his kicking.

Yours positively,

Tom

No disrespect to Smith, but he could be Cristiano Ronaldo when it came to kicking a ball and he's still going to end up looking like a Sean Long used to in internationals (or GF's against Leeds) - awful. Kickers are as good as they are allowed to be by the opposition, he'll get the ball off a slow PTB or going backwards with defenders in his face and in poor field position if the forwards don't win some collisions. Aussie and NZ refs are going to allow camping out at the tackle by defenders so forget that.
You need three options, two outfield and a hooker who can kick if the markers go shooting off upfield. If we get near the oppostion line we need the ball in the hands of Tomkins, Watkins and Hall.

However, I do feel relatively positive, so hope we both have something to cheer.