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Posted by RHINO-MARK on Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:48 pm
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Superted wrote:
Why is it wrong? Who's he holding back? He comes in and does the job McDermott needs/wants him to do. I'll trust his view on Walters capabilities over yours and whether a different kid should get a go ahead of him. There are plenty who bagged McD for his continued selection of Kirke - that didn't work out so bad for us did it?

As for his salary, no I don't know exactly what he's on, but I do know through contscts he's one of the lowest paid in the squad. His salary is meaningless/insignificant in terms of the club's ability to attract a different player.

Kirke was woeful & retained 3years too long his continued selection only proved the Coach had his favourites.
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Posted by Gotcha on Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:12 pm
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Superted wrote:
Why is it wrong? Who's he holding back? He comes in and does the job McDermott needs/wants him to do. I'll trust his view on Walters capabilities over yours and whether a different kid should get a go ahead of him. There are plenty who bagged McD for his continued selection of Kirke - that didn't work out so bad for us did it?

As for his salary, no I don't know exactly what he's on, but I do know through contscts he's one of the lowest paid in the squad. His salary is meaningless/insignificant in terms of the club's ability to attract a different player.


Ah right so you are one of those hypocrit fools? You come on slating Mullalley, who is continually picked by Mcermot, but when some one else comments on another, the excuse is he does the job of the coach and you respect the coaches View on him.

You don’t see how hypocritical you look?
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Posted by Superted on Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:12 pm
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RHINO-MARK wrote:
Superted wrote:
Why is it wrong? Who's he holding back? He comes in and does the job McDermott needs/wants him to do. I'll trust his view on Walters capabilities over yours and whether a different kid should get a go ahead of him. There are plenty who bagged McD for his continued selection of Kirke - that didn't work out so bad for us did it?

As for his salary, no I don't know exactly what he's on, but I do know through contscts he's one of the lowest paid in the squad. His salary is meaningless/insignificant in terms of the club's ability to attract a different player.

Kirke was woeful & retained 3years too long his continued selection only proved the Coach had his favourites.


I'm far from a Kirke fan - for his size, he was nowhere near as strong in attack as he should have been, but he was excellent defensively, missed very very few tackles and made very very few errors. There was a period where he'd not missed a tackle or made an error for something ridiculous like 10 games. Granted he played a very minor role, but his job was to come on, make a few drives, make lots of tackles around the ruck and give JP a breather so he could come back on and do his thing. So slate Kirke all you want, McD made it work for the team and we won multiple championships - what more can we expect.

Kirkes final 3 years were quite baron actually, only a Championship, a WCC and breaking our challenge cup duck in his final year to show for it.

Me thinks some people have gotten spoilt!
Posted by Superted on Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:24 pm
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Gotcha wrote:
Ah right so you are one of those hypocrit fools? You come on slating Mullalley, who is continually picked by Mcermot, but when some one else comments on another, the excuse is he does the job of the coach and you respect the coaches View on him.

You don’t see how hypocritical you look?


Not hypocritical in the slightest.

I don't rate Mullally, I didn't rate Kirke, but Kirke could do the job he was asked to do, and it worked extremely well in the end for the team. I think Mullally is slightly better than Kirke in attack once the ball is in his hands, and he's nowhere near as effective as Kirke in defence.

There's some differences in the roles the players are required to do, which stop my points being hypocritical.

Kirke was almost a 2nd tier forward, there to do.his specific job. McD got the best for the team out of using him. I didn't rate Kirke, but it worked for the team more often than not. I thought many times we had better players in the squad than Kirke, and that he was lucky to get picked ahead of them, but it worked, so well done McD.

Walters is far from a top line player, but he comes in when required and does the job McD sets of him (otherwise he wouldn't be picked again). Again, I think there's probably more skilful kids out there, but McD trusts in him, and he did score a GF winning try - well done McD.

Mullally I don't rate, and because of the current state of the squad, he's one of our main pack men. I don't blame McD for picking him, because he's got no better options in the squad currently. So my point is, we need more front line props of a much better standard than Mullally. If he was only required to do a bit part job, then he'd not be so bad. But with the age of our other pack men and the state of Super League squads in general, a player of his standard is too high up the pecking order for any super league squad in my opinion. His wage will be irrelevant, as I doubt he'll be a big earner.
Posted by tad rhino on Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:37 pm
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listen to you two arguing over two players who shouldn't be anywhere near a team with top 4 ambitions. both are garbage. walters scored a gf try. great. he's awful. dreadful.
Posted by christopher on Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:50 pm
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tad rhino wrote:
listen to you two arguing over two players who shouldn't be anywhere near a team with top 4 ambitions. both are garbage. walters scored a gf try. great. he's awful. dreadful.


Erm they were in a team that finished 2nd last year (walters was in a team that finished 1st aswell)so your point is rather daft.
Posted by Superted on Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:50 pm
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tad rhino wrote:
listen to you two arguing over two players who shouldn't be anywhere near a team with top 4 ambitions. both are garbage. walters scored a gf try. great. he's awful. dreadful.

You can't have stars in all 25 squad spaces, so you've got to expect some lower quality down the pecking order. But would agree, the standards of those lower quality players are slipping dramatically, and lower quality players are creeping higher in our squad than in a long time.

The salary cap can't be an issue for Leeds, as this squad should be nowhere near the full cap spend, and if it is, someone's royally F'd up. So then the question is why aren't we - is it simply we can't attract players of the calibre that are worth spending bigger money on, or are the club really tightening the purse strings due to the building works. Either way, it's a worry....

But I still wouldn't write the team off just yet this year. While ever they are a mathematical possibility of silverware, they've got a fighters chance. And even though I'd be less confident this year than for probably the last 15 years, I'd still back them in a knockout game against anyone - even with Walters and Mullally in the team. Realistically, Challenge Cup is doable - 1 of 2 major trophies ain't a bad return, but the squad needs massively investing in.
Re: CONTRACT | Adam Cuthbertson until 2020
Post Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:44 am
Posted by RHINO-MARK on Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:44 am
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Superted wrote:
I'm far from a Kirke fan - for his size, he was nowhere near as strong in attack as he should have been, but he was excellent defensively, missed very very few tackles and made very very few errors. There was a period where he'd not missed a tackle or made an error for something ridiculous like 10 games. Granted he played a very minor role, but his job was to come on, make a few drives, make lots of tackles around the ruck and give JP a breather so he could come back on and do his thing. So slate Kirke all you want, McD made it work for the team and we won multiple championships - what more can we expect.

Kirkes final 3 years were quite baron actually, only a Championship, a WCC and breaking our challenge cup duck in his final year to show for it.

Me thinks some people have gotten spoilt!

You make it sound like he was key to our success me thinks some people are to doe eyed to see what he actually brought during those last 3 years.
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Posted by tad rhino on Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:47 am
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christopher wrote:
Erm they were in a team that finished 2nd last year (walters was in a team that finished 1st aswell)so your point is rather daft.

how many games did Walters play? he's garbge
Posted by Superted on Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:13 am
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RHINO-MARK wrote:
You make it sound like he was key to our success me thinks some people are to doe eyed to see what he actually brought during those last 3 years.


Not at all. Like I say, at the time I thought there were better players in the squad who should have been picked ahead of him, but in hindsight, and having heard people like JP talk since that time, it's clear Kirke had a very limited, but specific role to play, and McD obviously chose him based on his ability to do that specific role over a player with better ability all round ability.
I didn't rate Kirke, but ultimately we won 5 Grand Finals and a Challenge Cup with him in the team- so.yes, I'm willing to say he was a very important cog in the machine. He wasn't a JP, Sinny, Burrow or McGuire, but he was important none the less, like all the other players who played a part.
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