WWW.RLFANS.COM • View topic - 6 Nations Chat - Rugby Yawnion

Board index Super League Leeds Rhinos - southstander.com 6 Nations Chat - Rugby Yawnion

Re: RD 5 | Leeds Rhinos v Hull FC
Post Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:49 am
Posted by Sal Paradise on Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:49 am
Sal Paradise User avatar
Gold RLFANS Member
Gold RLFANS Member

Reputation Points: 7
Rep Position: 28th / 76,907

Quiz Score: 0

Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2002 8:28 am
Posts: 15976
Location: On the road
Juan Cornetto wrote:
Farrell is one of the world's top rugby earners if not the highest earner so they are a excellent indicator of how he is rated in the sport.

Once again you display your poor rugby judgement and awareness check out the 30 best players in the world list below.

https://www.ruck.co.uk/30-best-players-world-201/7/

http://rugbylad.com/the-10-best-rugby-players-in-the-world-right-now/

The England coach wants to play two 10's as creative organisers and Farrell has the skill and defensive capabilities to be a world class 12 as well as a world class 10. Ford who I do like on his day is not even rated in the top 30 players in the world while Farrell is rated number ONE in the first list and number TWO in the second



The wages in the soccer PL would make some pretty ordinary players amongst the highest paid players in world. Farrell fits that category - highly paid but distinctly average player - if England don't beat the Irish they will finish 4th out of 6 hardly a ringing endorsement for its "star player". Far too cautious perhaps why is now playing in the centres. One thing is for sure his father was a better RL player than he is a RU player
Your job is to say to yourself on a job interview does the hiring manager likes me or not. If you aren't a particular manager's cup of tea, you haven't failed -- you've dodged a bullet.
Re: RD 5 | Leeds Rhinos v Hull FC
Post Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:41 am
Posted by Juan Cornetto on Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:41 am
Juan Cornetto User avatar
Bronze RLFANS Member
Bronze RLFANS Member

Reputation Points: 1
Rep Position: 34th / 76,907

Quiz Score: 0

Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2008 4:36 pm
Posts: 4711
Location: Living the Dream

RHINO-MARK wrote:
So a couple of "lists" prove he's World Class?
Here's me thinking it was performance & consistency over a sustained period of time.
It's quite amusing how you continually use a different opinion as some sort of proof as poor rugby judgement yet rely heavily on spreadsheets without been at games or even just viewing highlights.
How did your superstar do against Scotland or Today??
I look forward to seeing OF at a World Cup aswell before getting near to taking your view & using lists & earnings to back it up.


The reason Farrell is one of the top earners in world rugby and why he is rated so highly is precisely because of his outstanding performance and consistency over his whole career since he made the Saracens first team at the age of 16. That you failed to spot this when he was 19 was excusable as not everyone has this ability but to deny his world class skills and performances since is to fly in the face of world rugby opinion from rugby people who know a thing or two like All Blacks coach Steve Hansen, England world Cup winning coach Sir Clive Woodward, Lions coaches Warren Gatland and Sir Ian McGeechan.

I have quoted two different world rugby player ratings sites as a back up to my opinion that Farrell is a world class 10 which as I say is shared by most respected coaches and players.

I have used statistics to back up my opinions not to form them. While you have a record of poor judgement of both coaches and players. Your dislike of statistics is because they rarely back up your opinion and had you ever coached you would realise they provide useful support information.

The England team have put in two very poor performances but Farrell while not at his own best was still one of our best players in both and at centre had little chance to shine as the forwards were being dominated and produced only very slow ball. When Ford was taken off and Farrell went to fly half in the final quarter was when England had their best chance to win the game and his pass created our try.

With regard to Walters I still await your back up evidence to quantify all these many occasions that you say he was bumped off when first into a tackle and show how many times he left all these gaps? The stat you do not like shows he made 38 tackles from the bench!
Don't worry about avoiding temptation.
As you grow older, it will avoid you!
- Winston Churchill
Re: RD 5 | Leeds Rhinos v Hull FC
Post Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:53 am
Posted by Juan Cornetto on Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:53 am
Juan Cornetto User avatar
Bronze RLFANS Member
Bronze RLFANS Member

Reputation Points: 1
Rep Position: 34th / 76,907

Quiz Score: 0

Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2008 4:36 pm
Posts: 4711
Location: Living the Dream

Sal Paradise wrote:
The wages in the soccer PL would make some pretty ordinary players amongst the highest paid players in world. Farrell fits that category - highly paid but distinctly average player - if England don't beat the Irish they will finish 4th out of 6 hardly a ringing endorsement for its "star player". Far too cautious perhaps why is now playing in the centres. One thing is for sure his father was a better RL player than he is a RU player


So Sal if your opinion is that Owen Farrell is a "distinctly average player" can you suggest why he is first choice in the key playmaker position of fly half for the best club side in Europe over the last 6 or 7 years? And why he was selected on the last two Lions tours and was a starter in all three of their last tests, and is first choice in the England side and now their captain? And why he is named as one of the top few players in the world by all the ratings lists?

I know you like to be controversial Sal but please can you explain why you are so far out of step with world opinion?
Don't worry about avoiding temptation.
As you grow older, it will avoid you!
- Winston Churchill
Re: RD 5 | Leeds Rhinos v Hull FC
Post Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:45 am
Posted by Gotcha on Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:45 am
Gotcha User avatar
Gold RLFANS Member
Gold RLFANS Member

Reputation Points: 1
Rep Position: 34th / 76,907

Quiz Score: 0

Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 1:11 pm
Posts: 15496
If Farrell was Welsh or Irish he would never have been seen in International rugby.

Not a great fly half, not a great centre. Better players in his position.

An excellent goal kicker and the main reason he is picked for squads. For England he doesn’t exactly have too big a competition for either position.
#frostiesbitches We know who you are.
6 Nations Chat - Rugby Yawnion
Post Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:11 pm
Posted by RHINO-MARK on Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:11 pm
RHINO-MARK User avatar
Free-scoring winger
Free-scoring winger

Reputation Points: 3
Rep Position: 32nd / 76,907

Quiz Score: 48

Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2016 10:46 pm
Posts: 1200
Juan Cornetto wrote:
The reason Farrell is one of the top earners in world rugby and why he is rated so highly is precisely because of his outstanding performance and consistency over his whole career since he made the Saracens first team at the age of 16. That you failed to spot this when he was 19 was excusable as not everyone has this ability but to deny his world class skills and performances since is to fly in the face of world rugby opinion from rugby people who know a thing or two like All Blacks coach Steve Hansen, England world Cup winning coach Sir Clive Woodward, Lions coaches Warren Gatland and Sir Ian McGeechan.

I have quoted two different world rugby player ratings sites as a back up to my opinion that Farrell is a world class 10 which as I say is shared by most respected coaches and players.

I have used statistics to back up my opinions not to form them. While you have a record of poor judgement of both coaches and players. Your dislike of statistics is because they rarely back up your opinion and had you ever coached you would realise they provide useful support information.

The England team have put in two very poor performances but Farrell while not at his own best was still one of our best players in both and at centre had little chance to shine as the forwards were being dominated and produced only very slow ball. When Ford was taken off and Farrell went to fly half in the final quarter was when England had their best chance to win the game and his pass created our try.

With regard to Walters I still await your back up evidence to quantify all these many occasions that you say he was bumped off when first into a tackle and show how many times he left all these gaps? The stat you do not like shows he made 38 tackles from the bench!

:lol: :lol:
So England flop but your "World Class 10 or 12" isn't culpable in any way?
Also you list these Coaches as rating him as World Class yet Eddie Jones doesn't see him as a 1st choice 10?
My "dislike" of stats is purely because they NEVER show the whole picture of a performance.
A perfect example would be how many of these 38 tackles Walters made were 2nd or 3rd man?
Where do the stats show gaps created in the defensive line or poor initial contact?
Also my "poor judgement" as you put it has always been an opinion formed at that moment in time.
Just like yours when you were slating Sutcliffe for running on the 5th tackle at the start of last season when playing at 6.
Yet when Mcguire returned to the team & said in a post match interview it was a "tactic" they were trying out as per Coaching instruction to try to avoid a 7 tackle set you were happy to back it :READING:
You really have an "holier than thou" approach to these discussions at times JC as though you're some superior Coaching guru but happily throw yer opinions out there for games you dont see live or attend using stats or highlights.
With regards to backing my opinion about Walters' performance i will watch the full game back when i get chance. :thumb:
I really am rhinoms and haven't stolen his Avatar!
Re: RD 5 | Leeds Rhinos v Hull FC
Post Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:48 am
Posted by Juan Cornetto on Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:48 am
Juan Cornetto User avatar
Bronze RLFANS Member
Bronze RLFANS Member

Reputation Points: 1
Rep Position: 34th / 76,907

Quiz Score: 0

Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2008 4:36 pm
Posts: 4711
Location: Living the Dream

RHINO-MARK wrote:
:lol: :lol:
So England flop but your "World Class 10 or 12" isn't culpable in any way?
Also you list these Coaches as rating him as World Class yet Eddie Jones doesn't see him as a 1st choice 10?
My "dislike" of stats is purely because they NEVER show the whole picture of a performance.
A perfect example would be how many of these 38 tackles Walters made were 2nd or 3rd man?
Where do the stats show gaps created in the defensive line or poor initial contact?
Also my "poor judgement" as you put it has always been an opinion formed at that moment in time.
Just like yours when you were slating Sutcliffe for running on the 5th tackle at the start of last season when playing at 6.
Yet when Mcguire returned to the team & said in a post match interview it was a "tactic" they were trying out as per Coaching instruction to try to avoid a 7 tackle set you were happy to back it :READING:
You really have an "holier than thou" approach to these discussions at times JC as though you're some superior Coaching guru but happily throw yer opinions out there for games you dont see live or attend using stats or highlights.
With regards to backing my opinion about Walters' performance i will watch the full game back when i get chance. :thumb:


There were a few players who were not "culpable" and Farrell was one of them along with Daly and some of the subs.

Jones wants to play two creative controllers in his game plan and only Farrell has the ability to play at 12 as well. Until the last two games it has worked well, however Ford is exposed when the opposition gets on top and when the going gets tough the coach pulls off Ford and moves Farrell to fly half where he his skills have won the game in the last quarter with the help of the subs on several occasions.

Of course stats never show the whole picture but neither does the naked eye from one fixed position in the stands which is why the TV often gives a better insight in the close quarter stuff. You cannot argue with the stats because they are a factual record of performance not based on emotion and is why all coaches find them an important tool.

I use them to back up my opinions for instance in the recent difference of opinion on Walters performance Gotcha and I posted our opinions on the night before the stats were published. My opinion was that Gotcha was being over critical of a reserve player who came off the bench and made 38 tackles (second only to JJB with 44) in limited time on the field. Yes he may have made a couple of errors too but he was an important part of our defence that won us the game including a crucial one on one tackle that stopped Sneyd.

Indeed only 2 Hull players made more tackles and for Gotcha to denigrate Walters on this occasion was out of order IMO.

Both he and you love to try and belittle my opinions because I watch on TV while you view from the stands but neither of you seemed to be see on the night of the real effort made by Walters so it rather disproves your claims to a superior view point. Neither of you commented on Ormondroyd's contribution of just 6 tackles and 4 missed tackles with at least one miss leading to a try for Hull.

At the end of the day we can only put forward our opinions which are all too often subjective. However I do have quite a number of years coaching experience and have been a student of the game for over 60 years now so my opinion is as valid as the next man's.

To be on the opposite side of the opinion of Gotcha, Sal and yourself all at the same time tells me I must be on the right track! :wink:
Don't worry about avoiding temptation.
As you grow older, it will avoid you!
- Winston Churchill
Re: RD 5 | Leeds Rhinos v Hull FC
Post Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:04 pm
Posted by RHINO-MARK on Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:04 pm
RHINO-MARK User avatar
Free-scoring winger
Free-scoring winger

Reputation Points: 3
Rep Position: 32nd / 76,907

Quiz Score: 48

Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2016 10:46 pm
Posts: 1200
Juan Cornetto wrote:
There were a few players who were not "culpable" and Farrell was one of them along with Daly and some of the subs.

Jones wants to play two creative controllers in his game plan and only Farrell has the ability to play at 12 as well. Until the last two games it has worked well, however Ford is exposed when the opposition gets on top and when the going gets tough the coach pulls off Ford and moves Farrell to fly half where he his skills have won the game in the last quarter with the help of the subs on several occasions.

Of course stats never show the whole picture but neither does the naked eye from one fixed position in the stands which is why the TV often gives a better insight in the close quarter stuff. You cannot argue with the stats because they are a factual record of performance not based on emotion and is why all coaches find them an important tool.

I use them to back up my opinions for instance in the recent difference of opinion on Walters performance Gotcha and I posted our opinions on the night before the stats were published. My opinion was that Gotcha was being over critical of a reserve player who came off the bench and made 38 tackles (second only to JJB with 44) in limited time on the field. Yes he may have made a couple of errors too but he was an important part of our defence that won us the game including a crucial one on one tackle that stopped Sneyd.

Indeed only 2 Hull players made more tackles and for Gotcha to denigrate Walters on this occasion was out of order IMO.

Both he and you love to try and belittle my opinions because I watch on TV while you view from the stands but neither of you seemed to be see on the night of the real effort made by Walters so it rather disproves your claims to a superior view point. Neither of you commented on Ormondroyd's contribution of just 6 tackles and 4 missed tackles with at least one miss leading to a try for Hull.

At the end of the day we can only put forward our opinions which are all too often subjective. However I do have quite a number of years coaching experience and have been a student of the game for over 60 years now so my opinion is as valid as the next man's.

To be on the opposite side of the opinion of Gotcha, Sal and yourself all at the same time tells me I must be on the right track! :wink:

Im not trying to belittle your opinion just highlight that not being at games you miss certain things those are facts no?
Also as ive repeatedly said the stats never show a whole picture another fact.
I really am rhinoms and haven't stolen his Avatar!
Re: RD 5 | Leeds Rhinos v Hull FC
Post Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:22 pm
Posted by Juan Cornetto on Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:22 pm
Juan Cornetto User avatar
Bronze RLFANS Member
Bronze RLFANS Member

Reputation Points: 1
Rep Position: 34th / 76,907

Quiz Score: 0

Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2008 4:36 pm
Posts: 4711
Location: Living the Dream

son of headingley wrote:
Opinions, opinions, opinions...

Do you also give great credence to the Sky Man-of-the-Match award winner?

As it happens I think Farrell is a very good player. I do not need someone to tell me that he is in a adolescent-style "Top 20" article.


I was not telling you or even in discussion with you, but just providing independent back up to support my opinion.
Don't worry about avoiding temptation.
As you grow older, it will avoid you!
- Winston Churchill
Re: RD 5 | Leeds Rhinos v Hull FC
Post Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:13 am
Posted by Sal Paradise on Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:13 am
Sal Paradise User avatar
Gold RLFANS Member
Gold RLFANS Member

Reputation Points: 7
Rep Position: 28th / 76,907

Quiz Score: 0

Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2002 8:28 am
Posts: 15976
Location: On the road
Juan Cornetto wrote:
So Sal if your opinion is that Owen Farrell is a "distinctly average player" can you suggest why he is first choice in the key playmaker position of fly half for the best club side in Europe over the last 6 or 7 years? And why he was selected on the last two Lions tours and was a starter in all three of their last tests, and is first choice in the England side and now their captain? And why he is named as one of the top few players in the world by all the ratings lists?

I know you like to be controversial Sal but please can you explain why you are so far out of step with world opinion?


It could be argued that Saracens have not been the strongest side in Europe for the past 6-7 years - Toulon have won the trophy more times than Saracens.

Farrell plays because he is a very dependable kicker and in union that is key to winning games. His attacking play ball in hand is rank average - if he is so good why has he ended up playing in the centre. This is obvious - they need his kicking what they dont need is his creativity - good job as its pretty non-existent.
Your job is to say to yourself on a job interview does the hiring manager likes me or not. If you aren't a particular manager's cup of tea, you haven't failed -- you've dodged a bullet.
Re: RD 5 | Leeds Rhinos v Hull FC
Post Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:31 am
Posted by Juan Cornetto on Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:31 am
Juan Cornetto User avatar
Bronze RLFANS Member
Bronze RLFANS Member

Reputation Points: 1
Rep Position: 34th / 76,907

Quiz Score: 0

Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2008 4:36 pm
Posts: 4711
Location: Living the Dream

Sal Paradise wrote:
It could be argued that Saracens have not been the strongest side in Europe for the past 6-7 years - Toulon have won the trophy more times than Saracens.

Farrell plays because he is a very dependable kicker and in union that is key to winning games. His attacking play ball in hand is rank average - if he is so good why has he ended up playing in the centre. This is obvious - they need his kicking what they dont need is his creativity - good job as its pretty non-existent.


I totally disagree with your assessment. I can only think you have not seen him play very often or your judgement is seriously flawed to suggest he is "rank average"

His creativity, especially in the last quarter when he has been moved to his best position of fly half, has been a key reason
that England have won quite a number of games over the last few seasons. His game management is recognised as would class and the reason he has been selected at inside centre is to allow Ford to also play and give the team two creative organisers. That he has been selected to fulfill both positions at England and Lions (2 tours) levels over a number of years shows his world class.

Finally after two poor performances from England who does the coach turn to, to change our fortunes......Owen Farrell to start at 10!

As a product of Rugby League and the son of one of our games all time greats I am surprised you do not support him. Despite the record of his dad young Owen has already achieved greater things on the world sporting stage. Not bad for a "rank average" player eh Sal?
Don't worry about avoiding temptation.
As you grow older, it will avoid you!
- Winston Churchill
PreviousNext

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Brid B&W, D4mo78, Gotcha, Marty Grrrrrrrrrr!, OldFart2, son of headingley and 113 guests

Quick Reply

Subject: Message:
   

Return to Leeds Rhinos - southstander.com


POSTSONLINEMEMBERSRECORDYOUR TEAM
4,749,1121,07876,9074,559SET
LOGIN HERE
or REGISTER for more features!.
TODAY 14:00
WSL
YORK W
v
ST HELENS WOMEN
TODAY 14:00
WSL
FEATHERSTONE W
v
WIGAN W
TODAY 14:00
WSL
LEEDS W
v
BRADFORD W
TODAY 15:00
 CH ONE
BRADFORD BULLS
v
DONCASTER
TODAY 15:00
 CH ONE
HUNSLET
v
OLDHAM
TODAY 15:00
 CH ONE
KEIGHLEY
v
YORK
TODAY 15:00
 CH ONE
NEWCASTLE
v
COVENTRY BEARS
TODAY 15:00
 CH ONE
WORKINGTON TOWN
v
HEMEL STAGS
TODAY 15:00
 CHAMPIONSHIP
DEWSBURY RAMS
v
LEIGH
TODAY 15:00
 CHAMPIONSHIP
HALIFAX
v
BATLEY BULLDOGS
TODAY 15:00
 CHAMPIONSHIP
LONDON BRONCOS
v
SWINTON LIONS
TODAY 15:00
 CHAMPIONSHIP
ROCHDALE
v
TOULOUSE
TODAY 15:00
SUPER LEAGUE
WAKEFIELD
v
WIDNES VIKINGS
Thu 28th Jun 19:45
SUPER LEAGUE
WIGAN WARRIORS
v
LEEDS RHINOS
Sun 8th Jul 15:30
SUPER LEAGUE
CASTLEFORD
v
LEEDS RHINOS
Fri 13th Jul 20:00
SUPER LEAGUE
LEEDS RHINOS
v
WAKEFIELD
Fri 20th Jul 20:00
SUPER LEAGUE
LEEDS RHINOS
v
WIDNES VIKINGS
Fri 27th Jul 19:30
SUPER LEAGUE
SALFORD
v
LEEDS RHINOS
ALL SCORES PROVIDED BY RLFANS.COM (SETTINGS)






17