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Re: Donald Trump
Post Mon May 21, 2018 12:12 pm
Posted by tigertot on Mon May 21, 2018 12:12 pm
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bren2k wrote:
The answer, if ever there's to be one, lies in the corruption at the heart of US politics, and how campaigns and parties are funded; lobbyists in US politics pump billions into the candidates that will advance their particular interests - and those representatives become bought and paid for.

From what I can see, the NRA is far from one of the biggest spenders - but it also has a very sophisticated PR wing that can mobilise the large numbers of citizens who want to retain the right to bear arms; politicians who speak out in favour of gun control are targeted and trashed, with the enthusiastic support of Fox News, which makes the BBC look positively independent.

It's a bizarre cultural phenomenon - and it would take a seismic shift to get them to lay down the guns; clearly, the deaths of hundreds of kids is not sufficiently serious to change enough minds.


That's obviously sadly true, but an entire cultural shift is needed. Kids pick up guns because they are easily available, but what sort of society makes people actually want to do that? There are plenty of countries with relatively high gun ownership but only a fraction of the gun deaths. What is it about America that makes kids so unhappy/dissatisfied/angry? I think that a nation that every 10 or 15 minutes bombards its kids with false advertising of happiness through buying unnecessary crap shouldn't be surprised when kids aren't happy.
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Re: Donald Trump
Post Wed May 23, 2018 9:51 am
Posted by bren2k on Wed May 23, 2018 9:51 am
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An interesting piece by Gary Younge, written straight after the Las Vegas mass shooting.

This paragraph is telling:

"In a society that fetishises self-reliance, the gun speaks to rugged individualism – each person should be responsible for saving themselves. In a political culture that favours small government, the gun stands as a counterpoint to a lumbering and inefficient state – defend yourself, because by the time the police get there you’ll be dead. It underpins a certain sense of masculinity and homestead – a real man should be able to protect his family and home."

How you break down that culture, given that the right to bear arms was written into the constitution after they kicked us out, I really don't know; I can't see any meaningful change in my lifetime.

To the point about why American kids are so unhappy and resort to mass shootings - I don't think they're any more unhappy than anywhere else - they just have easy access to military grade weapons; where a disaffected or mentally unstable kid in the UK might be delinquent, difficult, violent and aggressive - a US kid can get hold of an AR15 and mow down dozens of people?
Re: Donald Trump
Post Wed May 23, 2018 11:22 am
Posted by Ferocious Aardvark on Wed May 23, 2018 11:22 am
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bren2k wrote:
To the point about why American kids are so unhappy and resort to mass shootings - I don't think they're any more unhappy than anywhere else - they just have easy access to military grade weapons; where a disaffected or mentally unstable kid in the UK might be delinquent, difficult, violent and aggressive - a US kid can get hold of an AR15 and mow down dozens of people?


Nail on head. That, and the wide reporting of these shootings (inevitable) which has already planted the seeds of an idea in the disturbed, disaffected heads of other troubled kids. I reckon there are many more disturbed kids who would be capable of such things, but it's just the pieces haven't quite fallen into place for them, for he majority they maybe never quite will, luckily, but there will always be some where they do. Like all other types of US shootings, it has become an established thing and periodically they will reoccur.

Gun control to the extent that such kids couldn't obtain a killing weapon is something I can't ever see happening. As someone else said, that horse has very long ago bolted.
Last edited by Ferocious Aardvark on stardate Jun 26, 3013 11:27 am, edited 48,562,867,458,300,023 times in total
Re: Donald Trump
Post Wed May 23, 2018 12:08 pm
Posted by tigertot on Wed May 23, 2018 12:08 pm
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bren2k wrote:
To the point about why American kids are so unhappy and resort to mass shootings - I don't think they're any more unhappy than anywhere else - they just have easy access to military grade weapons; where a disaffected or mentally unstable kid in the UK might be delinquent, difficult, violent and aggressive - a US kid can get hold of an AR15 and mow down dozens of people?


I do think they are more unhappy - or more dissatisfied. American kids can be nearly 100 times more likely to be prescribed anti-psychotic drugs than European kids. That is obviously a societal thing - it is the first response in USA whereas it is probably the last in some European countries, partly influenced by a medical system that will exploit any situation for profit. But there must be more to it than the availability of guns. There are not a third of the mass shootings in other countries with that proportion of guns in society. American kids are exposed to real violence more than most & media violence, usually with the good guys winning, more than anyone.
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Re: Donald Trump
Post Thu May 24, 2018 10:28 am
Posted by majorhound on Thu May 24, 2018 10:28 am
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Personally I believe the reason is not that American kids are more prone to this behaviour, it's that they have easier access to firearms. I remember reading somewhere that the highest suicide figures in the UK are among farmers, vets, doctors and dentists. Why? Because they have easier access to the means than the rest of us.
Re: Donald Trump
Post Fri May 25, 2018 9:27 am
Posted by Ferocious Aardvark on Fri May 25, 2018 9:27 am
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https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulation ... 2011to2015

Main points

There were 18,998 suicides in men and women aged between 20 and 64 years between 2011 and 2015, which constitutes a rate of around 12 deaths for every 100,000 people per year; for around 7 in 10 (13,232) of these suicides, an occupation was provided at the time of death registration.
Males working in the lowest-skilled occupations had a 44% higher risk of suicide than the male national average; the risk among males in skilled trades was 35% higher.
The risk of suicide among low-skilled male labourers, particularly those working in construction roles, was 3 times higher than the male national average.
For males working in skilled trades, the highest risk was among building finishing trades; particularly, plasterers and painters and decorators had more than double the risk of suicide than the male national average.
The risk of suicide was elevated for those in culture, media and sport occupations for males (20% higher than the male average) and females (69% higher); risk was highest among those working in artistic, literary and media occupations.
For females, the risk of suicide among health professionals was 24% higher than the female national average; this is largely explained by high suicide risk among female nurses.
Male and female carers had a risk of suicide that was almost twice the national average.
Females within the teaching and education profession had a lower risk of suicide but specifically for primary and nursery schoolteachers there was evidence of an elevated risk.
Individuals working in roles as managers, directors and senior officials – the highest paid occupation group – had the lowest risk of suicide. Among corporate managers and directors the risk of suicide was more than 70% lower for both sexes.
Last edited by Ferocious Aardvark on stardate Jun 26, 3013 11:27 am, edited 48,562,867,458,300,023 times in total
Re: Donald Trump
Post Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:41 am
Posted by RLRealist on Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:41 am
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bren2k wrote:
The answer, if ever there's to be one, lies in the corruption at the heart of US politics, and how campaigns and parties are funded


George Soros.
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