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Re: Priti Patel
Post Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:44 pm
Posted by Cronus on Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:44 pm
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JonB95 wrote:
Anyone calling Corbyn a communist is either an outright liar or an absolute blinkered buffoon. Can you give a single scrap of evidence of Corbyn proposing communism?

Communist, Marxist? The jury is out which is why I mentioned both. Either way, he's not so blatant these days in order to widen his appeal.

You're clearly a Corbyn fanboy, but let's take a look at his track record. He wrote for the Communist Morning Star in the 80s and 90s, and continues to feature regularly. He's still an avid reader. He’s on record as stating Marx was a “great economist”.

When he brought in Andrew Murray - a Communist Party member since 1976, another Morning Star journalist and a known admirer of Stalin and the USSR, who has stated his solidarity with North Korea - Corbyn claimed he was just "a democratic socialist and member of the Labour Party like me". Another example of watering it down for the masses - or maybe he's admitting he's just like Murray in his beliefs?

John McDonald – the “unapologetic Marxist” – is his right-hand man. His Executive Director of Strategy and Communications, Seumas Milne, is a devout Stalinist. Diane Abbot is on record as having praised Chairman Mao.

He called Castro a “hero”, praised Chavez, and has failed repeatedly to condemn the violence of Venezuela’s Maduro.

The Communist Party of GB opted not to field candidates in the General Election as Corbyn in power would help them achieve their "revolutionary aims" and closely aligned economic policies. They went on to endorse Corbyn.

Even The Guardian knows he’s building his support base from within.

And this little gem speaks for itself:
Image

He hasn't 'proposed' Communism - indeed I never said he had. Yet. But his core beliefs are firmly aligned in that direction. He's playing a toned-down version to win votes. Stepping down from Stop The War was part of that character realignment.

(since you also call Channel 4 'massively left wing', I suspect your compass is rather skewed on these things)

Just as I suspect your compass is clearly skewed. Left-wingers would undoubtedly find it all very proper and correct.

John Snow singing "F*ck the Tories" at Glastonbury is a rather less-than subtle indicator. :lol:

You've also disgracefully slandered him as anti-British and anti-white in this thread, which I would also like you to defend. With real, actual...proof?

If something is British/Western and it’s in opposition in any way, shape or form to anything, non-British/Western, Corbyn will oppose it. Anti-white was just a little gentle provocation. :)

The IRA, for example. In opposition to the British Government.
Corbyn: invited two IRA members to parliament two weeks after the Brighton bombing, attended a Bloody Sunday commemoration with bomber Brendan McKenna, attended a meeting with Provisional IRA member Raymond McCartney, hosted IRA linked Mitchell McLaughlin in parliament, spoke alongside IRA terrorist Martina Anderson, attended a Sinn Fein dinner with IRA bomber Gerry Kelly, chaired an Irish republican event with IRA bomber Brendan MacFarlane, attended a Bobby Sands commemoration honouring IRA terrorists, stood in minute’s silence for IRA gunmen shot dead by the SAS, constantly refuses to condemn the IRA or IRA violence in many interviews, signed early day motion blaming Britain for the IRA Poppy massacre, was arrested while protesting in support of Brighton bomber’s co-defendants, lobbied government to improve visiting conditions for IRA killers, attended an Irish republican event calling for armed conflict against Britain, hired suspected IRA man Ronan Bennett as a parliamentary assistant, hired an aide closely linked to several convicted IRA terrorists, has been heavily involved with IRA sympathising newspaper London Labour Briefing, put up £20,000 bail money for IRA terror suspect Roisin McAliskey.

Hamas and Hezbollah. In opposition to Israel and the West. Proscribed terrorist groups.
Corbyn: Said Hamas and Hezbollah are his “friends“, called for Hamas to be removed from terror banned list, called Hamas “serious and hard-working“, attended wreath-laying ceremony at grave of Munich massacre terrorist, attended conference with Hamas and PFLP, photographed smiling with Hezbollah flag, attended rally with Hezbollah and Al-Muhajiroun, has repeatedly shared platforms with PFLP plane hijacker Leila Khaled, hired an aide who praised Hamas’ “spirit of resistance“, was named on speakers list for conference with Hamas sympathiser Ismail Patel, attended event with pro-Hamas and Hezbollah group Naturei Karta, supported Hamas and ISIS-linked Viva Palestina group, attended Al-Quds Day demonstration in support of destruction of Israel.

ISIS: anti-West, anti-anything but their brand of Islam.
Corbyn: Opposed banning Britons from travelling to Syria to fight for ISIS, defended rights of fighters returning from Syria, said ISIS supporters should not be prosecuted, compared fighters returning from Syria to Nelson Mandela, said the death of Osama Bin Laden was a “tragedy“, wouldn’t sanction drone strike to kill ISIS leader, voted to allow ISIS fighters to return from Syria, opposed shoot to kill policy, wrote letter in support of conman accused of fundraising for ISIS, attended event with Abdullah Djaballah who called for holy war against UK, called drone strikes against terrorists “obscene”, spoke of “opposing anti-terror legislation”, said laws banning jihadis from returning to Britain are “strange”, criticised drone strike that killed Jihadi John, attended a conference in Cairo which called on Iraqis to kill British soldiers.

He blames the West for the attacks in Manchester, Paris and elsewhere. He blamed the EU for the Russian invasion of the Ukraine.

The examples are all out there - and there are plenty more. He's anti-West, anti-UK. His track record speak for itself. In over 35 years he hasn't come across an anti-West terrorist, political movement, or dictator he couldn’t defend.

So, in summary we have a man who holds a clear anti-West (anti-capitalism?) agenda and who has been building his Communist/Marxist team around him, while playing his watered down agenda to the liberal masses.

Image
Re: Priti Patel
Post Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:06 pm
Posted by JonB95 on Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:06 pm
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Where do I even start with this? Dishonesty or non-sequitur on every single line. It's like a parody of a Daily Mail article.

Cronus wrote:
Communist, Marxist? The jury is out which is why I mentioned both. Either way, he's not so blatant these days in order to widen his appeal.


No, the jury isn't out, as Corbyn has never identified as either of these things.

Cronus wrote:
You're clearly a Corbyn fanboy,


Nice try - I voted for Andy Burnham

Cronus wrote:
but let's take a look at his track record. He wrote for the Communist Morning Star in the 80s and 90s, and continues to feature regularly. He's still an avid reader.


And? He obviously reads news from sources he agrees and disagrees with, as anyone needs to do in this age.

Image

Cronus wrote:
He’s on record as stating Marx was a “great economist”.


A simple, indisputable fact. Marx is among the most cited and admired economists of all time. His ideas have formed the basis of quite a few things fundamental to modern society, such as the NHS.

Cronus wrote:
When he brought in Andrew Murray - a Communist Party member since 1976, another Morning Star journalist and a known admirer of Stalin and the USSR, who has stated his solidarity with North Korea - Corbyn claimed he was just "a democratic socialist and member of the Labour Party like me". Another example of watering it down for the masses - or maybe he's admitting he's just like Murray in his beliefs?

John McDonald – the “unapologetic Marxist” – is his right-hand man. His Executive Director of Strategy and Communications, Seumas Milne, is a devout Stalinist. Diane Abbot is on record as having praised Chairman Mao.


And yet he filled his shadow cabinet almost entirely with moderate social democrats and centrists, which amusingly you fail to mention. Watering down the revolution, or maybe it doesn't actually exist and is a conspiracy theory in your head?

Cronus wrote:
He called Castro a “hero”, praised Chavez,


So did Obama, Trudeau and numerous other soft left politicans. Castro and Chavez were immense political figures regardless of whether you agree with them or not. And I'd thoroughly agree that Castro's survival of decades of CIA siege was heroic and much more. There is good reason that he and Che are the subject of all movie makers dreams.

Cronus wrote:
and has failed repeatedly to condemn the violence of Venezuela’s Maduro.


Again, wrong. (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... rnment-may) You could just stop lying and smearing a pacifist who despises all violence but refuses to fall into the trap of 'condemning' only one side in an extremely complex internal dispute.

Still, no actual evidence of Corbyn actually being a communist, for all of your bluster.

Cronus wrote:
The Communist Party of GB opted not to field candidates in the General Election as Corbyn in power would help them achieve their "revolutionary aims" and closely aligned economic policies. They went on to endorse Corbyn.


Tommy Robinson and Katie Hopkins (among other questionable right wingers) propagandised for the Tories. They reach thousands of times more people than the Communist Party - and I wonder what aims they hope to achieve. What's your point?

Cronus wrote:
Even The Guardian knows he’s building his support base from within.

And this little gem speaks for itself:
Image


Lol, I'd love to know what you're trying to prove here. You do realise Ken is suspended from the party, and other hard leftists like Galloway remain out in the cold despite right wing scaremongering that Corbyn would bring them back.

And do you genuinely not know the fashion behind the Che t-shirt? It's not some communist propaganda...

Cronus wrote:
He hasn't 'proposed' Communism - indeed I never said he had. Yet. But his core beliefs are firmly aligned in that direction. He's playing a toned-down version to win votes. Stepping down from Stop The War was part of that character realignment.


So in summary, you have absolutely no evidence of Corbyn being a communist himself. Your best evidence would have been the Labour manifesto, but you know it to be a leftist statement firmly from the Bennite tradition, stacked with policies that the British public support overwhelmingly. (https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/05/19/na ... blic-view/)

But maybe your compass is so skewed that you consider more than half of the British public to be communists.

Cronus wrote:
Just as I suspect your compass is clearly skewed. Left-wingers would undoubtedly find it all very proper and correct.

John Snow singing "F*ck the Tories" at Glastonbury is a rather less-than subtle indicator. :lol:


It's not an indicator of anything. The BBC for example is stacked with former Tories, its political head left for a plum job with Theresa May, its most renowned political interviewer is chairman of the Telegraph and the Spectator, and its political editor found to be partial and inaccurate against Corbyn. I guess the difference between us is that I don't then jump to an insane conclusion that the BBC is 'very right wing'.

Cronus wrote:
If something is British/Western and it’s in opposition in any way, shape or form to anything, non-British/Western, Corbyn will oppose it. Anti-white was just a little gentle provocation. :)


So you've accused him of racism, then realised it to be a disgusting slur that you can't actually defend. Nice.

Cronus wrote:
The IRA, for example. In opposition to the British Government.
Corbyn: invited two IRA members to parliament two weeks after the Brighton bombing, attended a Bloody Sunday commemoration with bomber Brendan McKenna, attended a meeting with Provisional IRA member Raymond McCartney, hosted IRA linked Mitchell McLaughlin in parliament, spoke alongside IRA terrorist Martina Anderson, attended a Sinn Fein dinner with IRA bomber Gerry Kelly, chaired an Irish republican event with IRA bomber Brendan MacFarlane, attended a Bobby Sands commemoration honouring IRA terrorists, stood in minute’s silence for IRA gunmen shot dead by the SAS, constantly refuses to condemn the IRA or IRA violence in many interviews, signed early day motion blaming Britain for the IRA Poppy massacre, was arrested while protesting in support of Brighton bomber’s co-defendants, lobbied government to improve visiting conditions for IRA killers, attended an Irish republican event calling for armed conflict against Britain, hired suspected IRA man Ronan Bennett as a parliamentary assistant, hired an aide closely linked to several convicted IRA terrorists, has been heavily involved with IRA sympathising newspaper London Labour Briefing, put up £20,000 bail money for IRA terror suspect Roisin McAliskey.

Hamas and Hezbollah. In opposition to Israel and the West. Proscribed terrorist groups.
Corbyn: Said Hamas and Hezbollah are his “friends“, called for Hamas to be removed from terror banned list, called Hamas “serious and hard-working“, attended wreath-laying ceremony at grave of Munich massacre terrorist, attended conference with Hamas and PFLP, photographed smiling with Hezbollah flag, attended rally with Hezbollah and Al-Muhajiroun, has repeatedly shared platforms with PFLP plane hijacker Leila Khaled, hired an aide who praised Hamas’ “spirit of resistance“, was named on speakers list for conference with Hamas sympathiser Ismail Patel, attended event with pro-Hamas and Hezbollah group Naturei Karta, supported Hamas and ISIS-linked Viva Palestina group, attended Al-Quds Day demonstration in support of destruction of Israel.

ISIS: anti-West, anti-anything but their brand of Islam.
Corbyn: Opposed banning Britons from travelling to Syria to fight for ISIS, defended rights of fighters returning from Syria, said ISIS supporters should not be prosecuted, compared fighters returning from Syria to Nelson Mandela, said the death of Osama Bin Laden was a “tragedy“, wouldn’t sanction drone strike to kill ISIS leader, voted to allow ISIS fighters to return from Syria, opposed shoot to kill policy, wrote letter in support of conman accused of fundraising for ISIS, attended event with Abdullah Djaballah who called for holy war against UK, called drone strikes against terrorists “obscene”, spoke of “opposing anti-terror legislation”, said laws banning jihadis from returning to Britain are “strange”, criticised drone strike that killed Jihadi John, attended a conference in Cairo which called on Iraqis to kill British soldiers.


So by anti-west, you in fact mean a critic of western *foreign policy* decisions, and a defender of civil liberties and upholding international law. I'd love to know what you actually think is wrong with disputing drone strikes and shoot to kill and how exactly this makes him 'anti-west', but I know you also copied this list directly from Guido Fawkes and have absolutely no interest in the individual cases beyond point scoring.

Cronus wrote:
He blames the West for the attacks in Manchester, Paris and elsewhere. He blamed the EU for the Russian invasion of the Ukraine.


He blames the wests foreign policy in the middle east for creating a set of conditions in which terrorism has grown (an indisputable fact), he has never blamed 'The West' for any attack in itself. So 1) you're again lying about what he said, and 2) you're denying something that even Tony Blair himself has now accepted.

Oh, and by the way, the majority of the public agree with him again (https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/05/30/je ... oreign-po/). You're increasingly in a minority, and your screams of 'anti west!' are going to sound ever more pathetic. You could say a lot of things about the British public, but being anti-Britain is certainly not one. Or maybe your compass really is that off-kilter, in which case I really can't help you.
Re: Priti Patel
Post Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:22 pm
Posted by JonB95 on Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:22 pm
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Honestly, nothing gets my blood boiling like such dishonesty and smear. I don't come to this forum to get so annoyed, but now I am. I don't even like Corbyn, he was wrong to take sides with the IRA for example, but the lows that the Daily Mail-ist right go to attack him just pushes me more and more towards his politics. And let's face it, these people have absolutely no right to lecture anyone on foreign policy, especially with our recent record. Corrupt liars, all of them.
Re: Priti Patel
Post Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:31 pm
Posted by Lebron James on Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:31 pm
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lol cronus just got power owned. Tip for you Cronus to avoid embarrassment in the future, stop quoting the daily mail. The make things up

Regards

King James
Re: Priti Patel
Post Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:28 pm
Posted by Cronus on Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:28 pm
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JonB95 wrote:
He obviously reads news from sources he agrees and disagrees with, as anyone needs to do in this age.

He wrote for them for many years, and still features regularly. It's a Communist paper. He's their idol. But I'm sure you're correct, there is no link. :DOH:

A simple, indisputable fact. Marx is among the most cited and admired economists of all time. His ideas have formed the basis of quite a few things fundamental to modern society, such as the NHS.

He also created the theory behind Communism.

And yet he filled his shadow cabinet almost entirely with moderate social democrats and centrists, which amusingly you fail to mention. Watering down the revolution, or maybe it doesn't actually exist and is a conspiracy theory in your head?

And yet his closest team are the Marxist/Leninist mob.

At the recent GQ photoshoot Seumas Milne is reported to have been the man in charge, "pushing Corbyn around" like an old man. That would be the Stalinist bossing Jeremy about.

So did Obama, Trudeau and numerous other soft left politicans. Castro and Chavez were immense political figures regardless of whether you agree with them or not. And I'd thoroughly agree that Castro's survival of decades of CIA siege was heroic and much more. There is good reason that he and Che are the subject of all movie makers dreams.

None of that changes the fact Corbyn hails a Communist revolutionary as a 'hero'.

Again, wrong. (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... rnment-may) You could just stop lying and smearing a pacifist who despises all violence but refuses to fall into the trap of 'condemning' only one side in an extremely complex internal dispute.

Nope, when pressed he flapped around and eventually "condemned violence on all sides" but failed to criticise Maduro even when asked to directly. Failure to condemn in the political arena is akin to condoning.

No.10 is no place for a pacifist. Anyone who refused to say he would authorise a drone strike on an ISIS leader has no place in office.

Still, no actual evidence of Corbyn actually being a communist, for all of your bluster.

Oh, no, of course not. No evidence he leans that way whatsoever. No clues, no indicators. :ASK:

Tommy Robinson and Katie Hopkins (among other questionable right wingers) propagandised for the Tories. They reach thousands of times more people than the Communist Party - and I wonder what aims they hope to achieve. What's your point?

None of that changes the fact GB Communists see their aims so closely aligned with Corbyn they chose not to field candidates in order to strengthen his prospects. He's all over their website. They know what he's about, even if you're not admitting it.

Lol, I'd love to know what you're trying to prove here. You do realise Ken is suspended from the party, and other hard leftists like Galloway remain out in the cold despite right wing scaremongering that Corbyn would bring them back.

And do you genuinely not know the fashion behind the Che t-shirt? It's not some communist propaganda...

Oh please, we all know Ken's suspension is nothing more than a PR exercise. And it doesn't change the fact Corbyn appointed Ken to the Labour defence review...someone in line with his views on Trident as well has his political leanings.

But of course, wearing a t-shirt with Corbyn's face imposed over the famous Che Guevara picture doesn't point to anything, does it... :lol:

So in summary, you have absolutely no evidence of Corbyn being a communist himself. Your best evidence would have been the Labour manifesto, but you know it to be a leftist statement firmly from the Bennite tradition, stacked with policies that the British public support overwhelmingly. (https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/05/19/na ... blic-view/)

The best evidence is Corbyn himself, his closest team and his track record.

Look, as I've alluded to several times, the jury is out on his exact beliefs...I'm sure he's not actually an out & out Commie in the traditional sense. But he leans so far that way he's definitely a mash-up of Communism, Marxism and some extreme Socialist ideology.
It's not an indicator of anything. The BBC for example is stacked with former Tories, its political head left for a plum job with Theresa May, its most renowned political interviewer is chairman of the Telegraph and the Spectator, and its political editor found to be partial and inaccurate against Corbyn. I guess the difference between us is that I don't then jump to an insane conclusion that the BBC is 'very right wing'.

None of which reduces the bias shown by Channel 4 News on a daily basis, or John Snow's blatant hatred of one of the main parties.

And the BBC is right-wing? Might want to check out the team producing and presenting Newsnight.

So you've accused him of racism, then realised it to be a disgusting slur that you can't actually defend. Nice.

Whatever, his right-hand lady Diane Abbott is certainly racist. :lol:

So by anti-west, you in fact mean a critic of western *foreign policy* decisions, and a defender of civil liberties and upholding international law. I'd love to know what you actually think is wrong with disputing drone strikes and shoot to kill and how exactly this makes him 'anti-west', but I know you also copied this list directly from Guido Fawkes and have absolutely no interest in the individual cases beyond point scoring.

He blames the wests foreign policy in the middle east for creating a set of conditions in which terrorism has grown (an indisputable fact), he has never blamed 'The West' for any attack in itself. So 1) you're again lying about what he said, and 2) you're denying something that even Tony Blair himself has now accepted.

Where the information came from is irrelevant, it happened to be an easy place to find it in one go. :)

None of that list is untrue. His track recording as a terrorist apologist and cohort is extensive and concerning. Corbyn's default position is anti-West. You'll never find him blaming anyone else. You'll probably find him at another IRA rally.

BTW the suggestion of a shoot-to-kill policy is stupid anyway, if you shoot, you should expect to kill. I took great pleasure in seeing the knife attackers in London being gunned down. You probably think they should have been negotiated with.

Oh, and by the way, the majority of the public agree with him again (https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/05/30/je ... oreign-po/). You're increasingly in a minority, and your screams of 'anti west!' are going to sound ever more pathetic. You could say a lot of things about the British public, but being anti-Britain is certainly not one. Or maybe your compass really is that off-kilter, in which case I really can't help you.

Why the hell would I want a blinkered Corbynite to help me? :USTUPID:

I'm well aware of how Western foreign policy has affected Islamic extremism. I'm also aware of the roots of Wahhabism and of the divisions in the Middle East which do as much to create instability. Iran and Saudi playing the region to their own Sunni/Shia game, ancient tribal divisions, Israel & Palestine, the Kurdish question...the list is almost endless and goes back many hundreds of years. America was 'The Great Satan' a long time before 9/11.

Fact is, Wahhabists and especially the current bunch of Islamic nutters will use any excuse to attack the West for the simple reason their ultimate goal is the restoration of the Caliphate and carrying on that job through to the Islamification of Europe. Not that I imagine a Corbyn supporter would ever accept that.

As I said, anyone who doesn't believe Corbyn's true agenda is heavily along Marxist/Communist lines is either an outright liar or a blinkered buffoon. Not sure about you...you don't come across particularly stupid so I can only assume you're lying in order to defend your hero. You've been sucked in by the new, mass-appeal Corbyn. I bet you loved his GQ makeover.
Last edited by Cronus on Fri Dec 01, 2017 11:00 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Re: Priti Patel
Post Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:29 pm
Posted by Cronus on Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:29 pm
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JonB95 wrote:
And? He obviously reads news from sources he agrees and disagrees with, as anyone needs to do in this age.

Image

You're really posting that as some form of argument? :lol:

Image
Image
Image
Image
Re: Priti Patel
Post Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:31 pm
Posted by Cronus on Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:31 pm
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JonB95 wrote:
Honestly, nothing gets my blood boiling like such dishonesty and smear. I don't come to this forum to get so annoyed, but now I am. I don't even like Corbyn, he was wrong to take sides with the IRA for example, but the lows that the Daily Mail-ist right go to attack him just pushes me more and more towards his politics. And let's face it, these people have absolutely no right to lecture anyone on foreign policy, especially with our recent record. Corrupt liars, all of them.

You're funny. :)

You admit his support of and friendship with the IRA is true but somehow the rest is 'smear' and 'lies'? You can't pick and choose which bits of Corbyn's track record you wish to believe. It's all true, like it or not.

Ps I don't read the Mail. Never have.
Re: Priti Patel
Post Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:20 am
Posted by Wildthing on Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:20 am
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Lebron James wrote:
lol cronus just got power owned. Tip for you Cronus to avoid embarrassment in the future, stop quoting the daily mail. The make things up

Regards

King James


lol? power owned?

Are you 14?
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Re: Priti Patel
Post Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:56 am
Posted by Sal Paradise on Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:56 am
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I am beginning to think the likes of JonB are trolling. Which if any of Corbyn's policies don't involve the state having a greater influence on the way society is run?

These are just for starters do you think he will stop there if he manages to get into power!! - anyone who cannot see Corbyn's ultimate objective is either in denial, delusional or stupid.

Very typical far left ideaology - everything is dumbed down apart from those at the top of the political pile who live like kings - do you think the top men in North Korea or China are sharing the hardship of the normal citizen?
Your job is to say to yourself on a job interview does the hiring manager likes me or not. If you aren't a particular manager's cup of tea, you haven't failed -- you've dodged a bullet.
Re: Priti Patel
Post Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:58 pm
Posted by Lebron James on Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:58 pm
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Wildthing wrote:
lol? power owned?

Are you 14?


No. Are you?

Back on topic , watching Cronus trying to save face is glorious lol

Regards

King James
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