Re: Brexit Anyone? (2) : Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:07 am  

Agreed they will try and push us into a corner - I'm with I would say to the EU give us a date talks are off until you give us a date for trade talks to start

Re: Brexit Anyone? (2) : Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:53 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Agreed they will try and push us into a corner - I'm with I would say to the EU give us a date talks are off until you give us a date for trade talks to start

Push us into a corner?

The EU negotiators don't need to do anything other than hold their hands out and get a big fat fat cheque.

Both sides know full well by now how much GB's commitment to the EU is going to cost. The problem May has is how to convince the dumb electorate into accepting paying it. Get this wrong and the Tories are finished.

No one likes having their stupidity exposed to ridicule not least the average voter.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (2) : Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:12 am  

Ovavoo wrote:

Push us into a corner?

The EU negotiators don't need to do anything other than hold their hands out and get a big fat fat cheque.

Both sides know full well by now how much GB's commitment to the EU is going to cost. The problem May has is how to convince the dumb electorate into accepting paying it. Get this wrong and the Tories are finished.

No one likes having their stupidity exposed to ridicule not least the average voter.

Nah, that's rubbish.
Nige said that it would be a free trade deal, no payout AND £350,000,000 a week for the NHS.
Maybe "project fear" was right after all

It's time to realise that, as one of the main net contributors to the EU, the UK has the boss hand here.
Time to play hard ball and say feck em and then let's see what the next move is by the EU.

I know that there is plenty of legal stuff to get through but, this is all getting terribly tedious.

[Bullseye]

Re: Brexit Anyone? (2) : Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:21 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

It's time to realise that, as one of the main net contributors to the EU, the UK has the boss hand here.
Time to play hard ball and say feck em and then let's see what the next move is by the EU.

The UK may have some leverage but it's certainly not got the "boss hand". The EU will want a decent contribution or they'll make us pay in other ways that may last for decades. We need to arrive at a reasonable sum. Difficult when the hard right think we shouldn't be paying anything.

wrencat1873 wrote:

I know that there is plenty of legal stuff to get through but, this is all getting terribly tedious.

It's not meant to be entertaining. The details is the important bit but the leavers seem to want to gloss over all that and just walk away without considering the consequences.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (2) : Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:13 am  

Ovavoo wrote:

Push us into a corner?

The EU negotiators don't need to do anything other than hold their hands out and get a big fat fat cheque.

Both sides know full well by now how much GB's commitment to the EU is going to cost. The problem May has is how to convince the dumb electorate into accepting paying it. Get this wrong and the Tories are finished.

No one likes having their stupidity exposed to ridicule not least the average voter.

I think there is a case for calling their bluff - just say unless they come back with a date for trade negotiations to start no more meetings will take place and no offer of additional monies will be made.

I still think we will end up with WTO terms at worst.

If we had put some hard nosed business people doing the negotiations rather than weak willed politicians the framework would have been agreed by now.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (2) : Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:26 am  

Bullseye wrote:

The UK may have some leverage but it's certainly not got the "boss hand". The EU will want a decent contribution or they'll make us pay in other ways that may last for decades. We need to arrive at a reasonable sum. Difficult when the hard right think we shouldn't be paying anything.

It's not meant to be entertaining. The details is the important bit but the leavers seem to want to gloss over all that and just walk away without considering the consequences.

Making us pay "in other ways" shouldn't be an option if "we" get things right.
Of course we should pay that which we are obliged to pay, although this seems far from straight forward and perhaps it's the politics of trying to please party over electorate, plus, the necessary brinkmanship required in any negotiation, which is preventing any kind of openness with the general public as to exactly what we are aiming for.
However, it really is time for the politicians of all parties, regardless of their leave/remain inclinations, to start and show how The UK intends to prosper outside of the EU.
There is nothing whatsoever being spoken publically about just how the UK will improve it's lot over the next 5/10/20 years.

Regarding the entertainment value in all this, of course you're right.
However, the side show created by splits within the 2 main political parties and the situation in both Scotland and even more so in Ireland, is certainly interesting and watching the imminent Tory implosion from the warring factions within their party IS entertaining.

[Bullseye]

Re: Brexit Anyone? (2) : Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:32 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

However, it really is time for the politicians of all parties, regardless of their leave/remain inclinations, to start and show how The UK intends to prosper outside of the EU.
There is nothing whatsoever being spoken publically about just how the UK will improve it's lot over the next 5/10/20 years.

Until we know what if any kind of deal we have it's difficult to plan anything and nobody outside the EU will negotiate until they know what kind of deal we have with the EU. We're barred from doing deals until we've left. So showing how we intend to prosper seems a bit pointless when we've no idea what the rules may be.

Sal, WTO rules puts us at a disadvantage with a lot of our competitors when doing business with the EU as even Canada has some sort of deal. WTO rules is "no deal" and should be avoided. I think both sides actually know that so I'd be amazed if it came to that.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (2) : Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:31 pm  

Bullseye wrote:

Until we know what if any kind of deal we have it's difficult to plan anything and nobody outside the EU will negotiate until they know what kind of deal we have with the EU. We're barred from doing deals until we've left. So showing how we intend to prosper seems a bit pointless when we've no idea what the rules may be.

I'm all for keeping our cards as close to our chest as possible.
However, for those leading the country to have some vision of life beyond Brexit and sharing some of those ideas with the world at large could/should strengthen our hand, not weaken it.

At the moment it's like waiting for the gas bill before going to do the weekly shop and it looks like it may be a fairly hefty bill.

If ever there was a time for leadership and vision it's now and we could begin life after Brexit on the front foot, instead of having to fear what the future may hold.

Certainly, our hopes of an attractive trade deal with the US looks like a poor option, especially with Trump's "America first" policy (although I think that is one of his better ideas).

Re: Brexit Anyone? (2) : Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:30 am  

There are plenty of sizeable markets that trade with EU from outside of the single market - there appears to be no reason why these countries can trade very successfully with the EU and we will not be able to do.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (2) : Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:30 am  

Without the financial services sector what have we got to offer anyone? Sure, we have a large market full of potential customers, but those customers are already over indebted, with falling levels of disposable income.
Basically, the only option we have that doesn't involve massive public investment is to become a tax haven, which we're well on our way to becoming.

On a more important note, talks have broken down over the DUP's opposition to Northern Ireland remaining in the single market in order to maintain a 'soft border'. What was that in the election about a 'coalition of chaos'?